Active or passive?

Great thead.  I owned the Vandersteen Treo's for a few years after many with Proacs (various ones).  I went through a few amps with the various Proacs from Quicksilver tubes to higher end NAD to a few others along the way.  

I have heard many of the active or semi active speakers over the years as I actively listen to new products constantly and have since I started in audio as a kid in '69.  There was always something special about the active speakers that I found alluring even if I wasn't in love with the voicing.  In Europe, there are many more who go active for so many reasons.  

I spoke with Richard Vandersteen at Audio Connection in Jersey a few years ago about why he does semi active.  He said that the only reason he didn't do fully active was due to the US market and folks wanting to tinker and constantly change amps.  He said the more factors a designer can control, the better the speaker.  Impedances and all the other electronic stuff that make some top amps and speakers NOT play well in the sandbox tougher are perfect examples of guessing and and not science.  

It makes complete sense to most folks as the designer can fully control HOW his speaker will react.  It's also less money for amp cases and interconnects that often cost as much as the speakers themselves (in some cases).  Just total control of the sound the way the designer wants things to sound.

Vandersteen now makes two amps and I'm sure there will be a pre eventually to compliment the amps.  It's his way of doing a sort of a active system for the US market.  There is synergy happening.  

I upgraded (when I was finally able to) to the semi active Quatro's and have never looked back.  The bass is something so special for a 14k speaker.  If I ever wanted to add two more of his EQ'd subs for even smoother bass (pretty darn smooth already) or more likely more impactful bass in my large open loft, I could.  If he offered a fully active system like some of the others are doing, I'd have gone there in a heartbeat.  

It's fewer cabinets and products, fewer wires and cords and probably much less money for better sound.  We all have our own opinions and no one is right or wrong obviously.  Different ways to do the same thing.

Infection, Yes I've heard many of their models over the years.  They are intriguing speakers, but not my cup of tea. 

George, what I meant is that there are some active speakers I"ve listened to that I didn't like the voicing. Even in passive mode it wouldn't have mattered.  (there was a German pro speaker that also make home audio and they had fully active as well as passive).  I just didn't like the speakers, but in active mode, they sounded so much better and it was more than just the bass, but I get what you are saying. :) 

Neither way is right or wrong and that's the fun of audio.

01-19-2020 2:30amIve done this demo (passive vs active) many times.  

Active properly executed will outperform passive.   The reasons are many: 1) losses through all those copper coils in the passive crossover 2) losses of power, dampening factor, etc though all that speaker cable at speaker level 3) lack of phase control in passives 4) ability to control phase in active 5) passives requiring one big power amp vs active needing the exact right power for each driver element.

The differences will be mainly heard in improvements in imaging, details, bass definition, and dynamics. 

Brad
ATC Consumer/Lone Mountain Audio    

Thanks so much Brad.  Great post and what I have heard also when doing the same thing.  I just never had the long time to really do this like you have.  I have heard it with a pair of ATC years ago and then with a German brand who's name I forget.  

Have you ever done this with anything other than your ATC's?  Being that I owned the Vandersteen Treo and now the Quatro's, I think I'm qualified (as a consumer, not a professional) to say similar things.  As Richard V told me, that if I were ever able to afford his new amps that were designed with the Quatro and Cento in mind, that I'd have a fully active speaker (although I would still need a speaker cable that gets in the way,lol).  He has always loved the idea of controlling everything from start to finish (he won't be making a server though as he's an analog dude).

Even in the KEF LS50's it makes a HUGE difference.

I'm on the other side of the no speaker does bass well argument.  I own Vandersteen Quatro's as I've said.  Vandersteen is the only manufacture I know of who integrates the sub amp the way he does.  The amp takes on the same sound characteristics as the main amp.  All his subs integrate an 11 band analog eq, which smooths things out in most any room (I have a difficult room for bass and it worked like a charm).  IF I had the money adn ability to use two more of his subs, it would be what's done with the Swarm system.  The best of all worlds.  

If you want to talk highest of high end, I have heard the Vandersteen sub 9 system in Ft Collins, CO and it was amazing.  I've heard the highest end Wilson's, the top end Tidal as well as many other mega high end speakers, but the Vandy hit the perfect notes.  It's not cheap, but bass in any of our products is the most expensive part of the build for many reasons.

I personally have yet to hear DSP that I have liked.  You do hear the difference if your system is set up properly.  It's easier of course, but I know I'm not the only and even one designer of a major brand who uses it, told me that 'of course you can hear it, but that is a compromise I made, because it will sell better."

All designers make compromises and we just need to figure out which ones we live with when we make our decisions.  

I would assume that Jone's shared that and I'm not surprised in the least that his active speakers sounded very good.  Most of his designs aren't my cup of tea (I have liked a few of the lower priced Elac's when mated with the right amp as they are not forgiving), but he does great job and has since his AE days.  Most speaker designers are concerned with the US market wanting to 'match their own electronics' and also competing with their partners who make components to drive their speakers.  It's a bit political to say the least.

Think about it.  If all speakers were active, then we would just go in and listen to speakers and figure out which ones we liked the best without tuning and playing around.  We would then have to find the best sources to go with our active speakers and cables to hook them up.  Hey, we would still be able to get better power cords, lol....

Fun debate as there is no right or wrong.