Wig, Tone and timbre are what I was seeking with my foray into the SET genre. Transparency, resolution and superior nuance were beyond my expectation. There are definitely similarities with our audio system development/ evolution.
Charles |
Bill,
I agree with what you’ve written and certainly appreciate your rationale for owning both a tube and solid state amplifiers. Some people own multiple systems for the thrill of different presentations with a diverse collection of components and speakers.
One of the great aspects of High End Audio is the enormous choice of product genres to explore. With experience and patience gained over the years, one can develop an audio system to uniquely match their desired sound. This is an attribute that is underappreciated in this endeavor I believe. We are free to go in whatever direction our ears lead us.
I’ve found my desired sound and music reproduction fulfilled as have others. For others it’s a never ending search which for them provides the challenge they seek down the path toward nirvana. Home audio system assembly is really an ultimate form of self expression. You begin with a blank canvas and create as you see fit..
It is such a joy to build a music collection over the years and be able to sit back and enjoy listening to masterful musicians that you admire. I love listening to music.
Charles |
Exactly !
On interesting forum discussions such as this we as individuals can only contribute the results of our various listening experiences. I admittedly tend to happily share my perspective regarding tube and especially SET amplifiers based on my discovery and long ownership of them. the move toward them and away from previous solid state amps was a pivotal moment for me.
I've read many posts by you recounting your happiness and enthusiasm with class D amplifiers and Ohm Walsh speakers. I understand this as it is clear they have had a very positive and impactful influence along your journey. This is logical as we tend to talk/write about what we have experienced with resulting good outcomes.
Charles |
Mapman,
I don't know how I could have made that point any more clear. This whole endeavor is subjective. you listen and either you like it or you want something different in some particular manner . My choice of 8 watt amp is no more or less subjective than your choice of a 500 watt amp. We both have chosen what suits us best to satisfy our respective goals.
This is why I seriously suggested to Bill he should try a high power SS/class D amplifier. Wig went this route with the Vitus amp but found the LM 508ia with 48 watts to be better sounding. However for Bill it is quite possible the Vitus or your 500 watt Bel Canto could be the better solution for his needs.
I don't believe my taste or ears are better than yours or anyone else, I just know what is the better option for me. So although I can relate to Wig choosing the 48 watt SET amp over the 400 watt solid state amp. I acknowledge this wouldn't be the choice for others. In no way am I making any proclamation as to what is universally best, hardly.
Charles |
Wig,
It looks like your amplifier progression was VAC 160i, Vitus RI 100, LM 508ia. Not a dog in that group.
Charles |
An OTL would surely welcome a nice easy to drive 12 ohm load, this makes perfect sense. The Triode Corp and Line Magnetic SET amps do very well with the Cresendo's 6 ohm flat load. Both of these have terrific quality output transformers and serious stout power supplies.This is why these amplifiers are so heavy (and sound so divine).
Charles
|
Wig,
Your’re a pure example of what I was describing in my earlier post today regarding higher power amplifiers. Their potential advantages are a matter of sonic priorities of an individual listener.
The very highly regarded Vitus with 400 watts and yet you replaced it with a 48 watt SET. Quite clearly you are very happy with this switch. To be fair I could see someone making the opposite choice to the much more powerful Vitus and being happy.
I can easily believe you when you say it sounds much better. DHT SET just do some things like no other type of amp and this includes push pull pentode type tube amps, they are just different.
No amplifier does everything right for every listener. This is why a person has to know what it is they are searching for as for certain either of these amplifiers are superb in the right setting. Wig, my taste would lead me to the same choice as you.This is not a put down of the mighty Vitus by any means. A well executed SET with enough power is my "just right" cup of tea. Wig I know you are having a ball with your music reproduction.
Charles |
Bill,
The price of the LM 508ia in the 5000 to 5500.00 USD range. 18,00.00 is incorrect.
Charles |
Bill,
I get your point regarding the Triode Corp TRX 845 PSET mono blocks, they are huge and heavy as well as expensive (which is relative). The Triode/Cresendo pairing sounds better than so many amplifier/speaker combinations at the shows that are far more expensive. At CES 3 years consecutively the Triode/Cresendo was among the very best sounding systems regardless of cost that I heard.
Charles |
Bill,
The 48 watt LM 508ia is less expensive than the 22 watt LM 219ia
The 508ia could possibly be a better match with the Cresendo given the increased power. My suspicion is both of these LM amplifiers would sound exceptionally good.
Charles |
Bill,
This is why at the end of the day everyone simply must trust what they hear and be content. Two people can be in the same listening room critiquing a system and comparing/swapping components and form very different impressions that are "equally " valid. Someone could listen to your system and prefer the tube amplifier while your clear preference is the Lyngdorf 2170. This is not uncommon as people key in and are drawn to various sonic attributes that they place higher value on.
It’s very possible you’d enjoy the Crescendos with even more powerful amplifiers than your Lyngdorf, say maybe 400 to 500 watts. Conversely another listener may feel that this is the wrong direction and believes that the sound quality takes a backwards step. Different ears,different priorities and taste. I believe that you should try a very high power class of D amplifier, it could very possibly be the ideal pathway for your needs. There are a variety of amplifier choices for this excellent speaker that would prove sucessful matches, just depends on what someone is trying to accomplish musically. Robert Lee consistently chooses to use the Triode Corp amplifier more often than not, I can understand why based on my listening exposure to this pairing.
Charles |
Just a thought, Viva Auroras seldom appear on the used market (I can understand why). A pair of these would make the Cresendo sing to the heavenly angels above in my opinion.
Wig uses the Line Magnetic 508ia an 805 SET 48 watts and says they're the best amplifier he has heard on the Cresendo. Quality!
Charles |
sksos1,
I can believe that the 60 watt Atmasphere mono blocks overall outperform the more powerful Merrill with the exception of playing very loud rock music. As you note, some high power amplifiers can lack liveliness. I’ve heard this result more than a few times at shows and demonstratons. Despite the impressive power available, there can be "at times" a flat and uninvolving sound. Increasing the volume doesn’t eradicate the issue.
I’ve heard these speakers on 4 occasions driven by the 50 watt Triode Corp TRX 845 PSET in generous sized rooms and the presentation was truly superb! My 8 watt SET wouldn’t be my first choice with the Crescendos, but 50 to 60 "high quality " watts should be quite a fine match. Emphasis on quality watts. Sorry to hear about your experience with AZ selling direct and undercutting you. Too bad.
Charles |
I'm not surprised by the many positive comments here regarding the Crescendo speakers. At CES earlier this year the system/room with these speakers were among the absolute top sounding in the entire show. I heard many speaker-systems that were 3-6x the cost and simply didn't sound as natural and musically convincing. This is a special speaker that presents music at a world class level without the astronomical cost of so called SOTA speakers that to me sound less impressive and enjoyable .
An added bonus is that this speaker is an easy load and sounded complete and just beautiful driven by the Triode Corp. PSET 845, a 50 watt amplifier in a relatively large room at CES. It delivers the whole musical picture with emotion and avoids the dreaded analytical, clinical and sterile sound that's prevalent in current high end audio.
Charles, |
Lack of a hifi character is exactly what makes the Crescendo speaker superior sounding to the vast majority of the currently in vogue "audiophile" favored speakers that are frequently raved about. |
Wig,
I don't have the Crescendos but my Coincidents are of very similar size and have 5 driver configuration(two 10" woofers are side mounted). They're 8 feet apart, 5 degree toe in and I sit 11 feet away. |
It's funny how perception can vary so greatly amongst different people. I'm familiar with the popular Wilson Sasha and Magico S5, both are very highly regarded. Yet in my opinion neither is nearly as natural, balanced and musically involving as the Crescendo. Subjective? Obviously so, but this speaker seems quite underrated for what it offers.
Charles, |
Hi Sksos1,
Appreciate your candor, that was no doubt a hard and expensive lesson. And one I'm sure you won't repeat.
Charles, |
