Ksales, thanks for the complement, I appreciate it:-).
I finally broke down and purchased (charity auction) an Acme Audio 20A Silver/Cryo’d outlet. Since I own quite a few different outlets I wanted to hear what the Acme sounds like compared to the others.
In the past I have been lucky enough to ship my outlets to Alan at http://www.audioexcellenceaz.com/ (of course it did not hurt that I purchased several items from him) for a reasonable fee he had my outlets doubled cryogenically treated and burned in for 72 hours on his cable cooker. I believe that’s the way to go unless you have your own cable cooker or access to one.
If you’re looking for a reliable cryogenic lab, email me and I can make some reasonable recommendations. |
I found LAK's remark really interesting. His threads always seem well reasoned and fair. I was wondering what the cost of having your fims cryo'd is? I have several extras I might want to try this with and a/b against the non cryo'd. I don't know if I will hear what others do but it would be interesting. |
Fair enough. The FIM sound great; better dynamics, both micro and macro, darker black areas around each particular instrument within the soundstage, fuller and tighter bass, more tonaly acceptable within my system IE; vocals sound more natural, and more involving. You can also hear more of the richness in horns, Ben Webster never sounded better.
Please remember though, HDM, this is within my system. Your mileage may vary. The Acme may work well with a more traditional tube amplifier or in a system that requires leaning out. I haven't tried the Jena elsewhere yet, but I am planning on trying them on a few friends systems prior to Christmas. If they work well within their system, Merry Christmas. |
My system dependancy comment was simply meant to preface my remarks concerning neutrality Jacks. Ernie's comment seemed to go more to the issue of the posts lacking information more than anything else and that was what I was trying to deal with. You seem to be one of very few people having experience with the Acme's, the Jena Labs and the FIM's; perhaps you could elaborate a bit more on their sound beyond "hard and harsh", "good", "great" and "terrible". I can get the idea of what "hard and harsh" sound like. The other descriptions don't really tell me (or anyone else, I would expect) very much. |
My God, HDM, you win the prize! Anyone that has been involved in audio knows that everything is system dependant; thanks for making this aware to those who forgot it.
The silver plated Acmes recepticals sounded hard, and harsh in my system, though sounded good in my friends older tube system. The FIM sound great in my system, Go figure. The Cyro'ed Jena were horrible in each system, though I'm sure that they fit perfectly within some system matches.
For you new to the hobby; There is no perfect cable, outlet, etc. for any combination of audio systems. Don't be discouraged, the fun is in finding the perfect match for you combination! |
Subaruguru: Everything is system dependent, but in my system, I can tell you that "brighter" is not more linear(neutral) and more musical. While the stock Pass and Seymours were a decent upgrade from the 89 cent receptacle at the wall, they were clearly outperformed in my estimation by both the Arrow Hart and Hubbell stock receptacles for a bit more money. The Hubbells, which in stock form I finally settled on after fairly heavy experimentation with the P&S and the Arrow Hart are, in my mind, grossly superior.
If I was to describe the Pass and Seymour compared to, say, the Hubbell 8200, I'd say it has a very forward and congested midrange that is bright and gives the illusion of detail, and a very zingy, kind of distorted top end, again giving the illusion of detail, and, to a certain extent, air. As I recall, it was pretty decent in terms of bass performance, but that was about it.
The Hubbells, on the other hand, just sound more "natural". They are less "exciting" to listen to initially, but more rewarding long term because they're less distorted. Ambient and spatial information is presented much better as well, and you can "hear into the performance" much more. They have a "quietness" and black background to them that, in my experience, the stock P&S, Arrow Hart, and Levitons that I fiddled with couldn't come close to.
You have a system that probably retails for about 10X what mine does. You should try one of the World Power receptacles for $55. I would go so far as to suggest that you aren't really hearing what your system is capable of, and to be able to do that for $55 (or $110 if you need two) is an incredible bargain. |
Hmmm...lots of in-depth response here.
I like the ACME silver/cryo a lot. If they're considered "brighter" than I consider that to mean that they're more linear (neutral), and therefore MORE musical, not less! I prefer to accomplish spectral tilt voicings with interconnects or speeaker/placement/room-treatment adjustments, NOT choice of AC duplexes. Maybe I'm being naive, but any future outlets I use will be Pass& Seymour tight-grip $4 ones cryo'd for free at my wife's dermatologist! Fee fi fo FIM! |
I don’t mean to confuse your selection of outlets and originally I did not respond to this post because I have never heard the Acme outlet. I do own the FIM along with several other outlets.
As Hdm mentioned I (as Hdm has) have experimented with many outlets: FIM, Hubbell, Wattgate 381, PS Audio AV Grade (Hubbell), regular and cryogenically treated.
Basses upon sound characteristics in my system I preferred the Hubbell cryogenically treated outlets {$60-$65} (as stated by Hdm) and the Wattgate 381 {$120}. After cryogenic treatment the FIM sounded greatly improved as to the point where I use it in my system interchanging it with my other favorites (multiple dedicated lines).
In my opinion you get more bang for your buck by purchasing one of two different Hubbell’s that Alan sells that are doubled Cryo²™ treated. For added value, all 5362 and 8300 receptacles are conditioned for 4 days on the Cable Cooker™ prior to shipment. All deep cryogenic treatment performed is certified by Cryogenics International.
This would save a person from the extremely harsh break-in as described in the current ongoing post that can be read on Audiogon at: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ymisc&1034280535&openusid&zzGrandpoobah&4&5#Grandpoobah
I hope this is helpful to anyone interested in an outlet upgrade! |
Based on my experience and also another Audiogon member, LAK, I would suggest the following receptacles:
http://www.audioexcellenceaz.com/worldpower.htm
I have no experience with the Acme's, but do have extensive experience with the receptacle they are based on, the stock Pass and Seymour. Compared to the stock Hubbell 8300 that Alan Kafton cryo treats, the Pass and Seymour is much brighter and more "forward"; in my opinion the Hubbell is much more accurate.
The cryoed 5362 and 8300's that Alan sells are in another league altogether. It is hard to believe that a receptacle can have as much of an effect on sound quality as these do.
Also, he subjects them to a longer than normal, state of the art cryo treatment, and then cooks them on a cable cooker prior to shipment, which results in a very fast break-in time, about 4-5 days as opposed to 30-45 days. These are excellent receptacles and, in my opinion, very good value at $55-$60.
I have not heard the FIM, but LAK has, and has stated that his preference is for the World Power Hubbells, along with the Wattagate, but the Wattagate is substantially more money-about twice the price.
Also, if you are running a line conditioner, I would strongly suggest that you replace the units in your conditioner if at all possible. I constantly read posts from people who are using a decent receptacle at the wall and plugging a Monster (or any other, for that matter) conditioner into it and running the bulk of their system off it. This WILL NOT allow you to hear what your system is really capable of with a good quality receptacle. |
I've used the Acmes, but they were non-cryo versions, and in my electrical system (which seems inherently bright), I considered them too bright and a bit fatiguing for my taste. But I really like the high purity copper FIM 880, and in my system it was only somewhat dark while breaking in, but once broken in it becomes more dynamic with a "good" brightness that adds sparkle to music-- and the FIM becomes very very smooth on breakin. My outlet of choice though is the Hubbell Audiograde from The Cable Company @ 2/$25.
I don't mean to bash the Acmes though, and use them on the subs of my Vand. 5 sperakers. Also, the Acmes might be excellent in a somewhat dark sounding system. Good Luck. Craig |
There are a gazillion threads on this subject. Search for Fim or acme and you will find a lot. I have FIM and like them very much. The problem as I see it is that many people evaluate these products out of the box. On any new additions to a system at least several hundred hours of breakin is required. Also when I read all these opinions no really details what else they have done on their system.
Finally I have a fairly educated ear in that I have rather high end systems and have been playing with this stuff for years, but many offering opinions have a far greater physical capability then I do in dintiguishing the difference these outlets make esspecially when it takes considerable breakin to really hear what one is looking for. It took me 400 plus hours to break my amps in and until that point I thought they were dogs and didn't know why I bought. At some point they jumped out. With the outlets I have noticed improvement over better grade outlets, but not on that magnitude. I always wonder what else the other guy has going on and how that would impact me. I have considerable acoustic treatment and dedicated balanced power to start. Maybe in my setting the outlets aren't going to be as dramatic as with someone else's setup. Anyway you will find a lot of opinions. Good Luck |
