Accuphase compared to Mcintosh? Give me a break. What an insult to Accuphase. Mcintosh is crap compared to Accuphase. No way in the same league. But what's really funny is Mac is owned by a Japanese company, D&M Holdings (Denon and Marantz). Just one of many examples, you won't find teflon circuit boards in Mac, which have the lowest noise floor. Mac uses standard military grade copper/glass boards that are common in A/V Receivers. Accuphase is built with much better quality control, better execution in desigh scheme. They are what Mark Levinson was twenty years ago, and should be recognized as such. Mac is just a name nowadays and will never be in the same league as Accuphase. As far as performance quaility, Accuphase is up there with Soulution, Burmester, FM Acoustics, Boulder, BMC and Ypsilon. I would argue their C-3800 Preamp that just came out, is the best sounding SS Pre on the market, with a luxurious, rich texture thats closer to tubes that any other solid state PreAmp. |
Off course its an insult..Mac is not Ultra High End, Accuphase is, and to compare the two and imply they are on the same playing field is absurd, and shows a lack of intelligence and awareness of who these companies are. Mac's top universal bluray player has three cooling fans in the unit, thats poor engineering. No other high end bluray player runs as hot. Good luck with the fan noise. There's close to 200 used Mac items for sale on Audiogon, which shows Mac does not have a high retainment of ownership as Accuphase does. If Mac's gear was world class in sound quality, there wouldn't be hundreds of used Mac pieces for sale on Audiogon, Audio Classics, Ebay, etc...an endless sea of used Mac stuff..as far as sound and build quality, Accuphase is a Rolls Royce and Mac is a Toyota Camry... |
Accuphase's top Preamps are far more expensive and have a performance level way beyond Mcintosh for the following reasons. The circuit board material used in Accuphase's top model's is either Teflon or Fluorocarbon Resin which is very expensive and far more costly than the common green copper/glass boards found in Mcintosh. You will not find Teflon or Fluorocarbon resin boards in Mcintosh. Also, Accuphase uses NASA grade parts in their top models such as resistors, capacitors, and transistors that cost many times more than the military grade parts in Mcintosh. NASA grade parts have a defect rate 1/2 to 1%. Military grade parts have a defect rate between 3 and 5%. NASA grade parts always will result in a far superior sound, which is why Audiophiles who are aware of this will go the extra mile and buy components new or used with these materials knowing well the sonic results. This is why I state that Accuphase is like a Rolls Royce and Mac is like a Toyota Camry...SUPERIOR QUALITY!!!...you get what you pay for... |
I am not desperate to prove anything. Just open your eyes and ears. Look inside an Accuphase C-3800 Preamp on their website. The materials and boardwork are light years ahead of Mac. Mac is not bad stuff, just relying on old topology.
Mac has made no advances whatsoever in twenty years with new technologies in circuit designs or power supplies. The best sounding Preamps, regardless of price, based on their science and innovation, are the following, the Ayre KX-R, the Vitus SL-102, and the Accuphase C-3800, since they have a sonice character that portrays the very best of tube and solid state. There are many great products from Burmester, Boulder, Goldmund, FM Acoustics, Rey Audio, and Soulution, but these pieces lack the overall magic, bloom and emotion of the three I mention. All these companies have made great strides and advances with newer science and topology that has left Mac in the back of the train. Mac is old school that reached its pinnacle in the seventies, Mac makes great stuff but is simply not on the same level when it comes down to hall effect, holographic
3-D imaging and echo decay as the other brands mentioned. |
Billimbriale..I'll answer the question regarding the sonic signature of Accuphase and Mcintosh, since I'm familiar with both and will get off the rock throwing plaform. Both Accuphase and Mcintosh have a very relaxed character and very smooth, and both image very well. The key differences is that Accuphase has better pinpoint imaging and detail and front to back layering. Accuphase has greater dimensional space that is typical with tubes. The top two Accuphase Preamps have superior bass than Mcintosh and sell for a lot more. The top Preamp costs $40K and the second one down
costs $29K. Mac's top two piece Preamp sells for $ 20K.
Accuphase gives a sonic character that is a better blend of tube and solid state than Mcintosh. Mac is more colored and Accuphase sounds cleaner and provides better spacial depth. The one area that Mac is no match whatsoever to the Accuphase top Preamp, the C-3800, is its brilliantly designed AAVA volume control. Its a fully balance dual mono gain control with a separate module for each channel that you will not find in the Mac. |
Inna..Michael Fremer is not exactly on target. The respected review site, Dagogo, reviewed and tested the Ypsilon PST-100 in September 2009 and put it up against the MBL 6010. The reviewer, Ed Momkus concluded that the MBL was the better performer due to its superior dynamics.
The Ypilson is not cheap. Cost is $ 25K. You say that Accuphase and Mac are overpriced ? No way. It appears you lack knowledge on the three grades of parts in the Audio industry. Standard, Military, and NASA grade. I'll repeat again what I stated in this thread, that the NASA grade materials used in the Accuphase are extremely expensive, such as the circuit board material and parts, which is why their cost is high, and the quality of parts, integrated into a well execute design scheme, results in magnificent sonic performance. all your best world class Preamps that sell at very high prices, all use NASA grade parts and components due to their very narrow defect rates, resulting in better phase and linearity of the music signal. |
The term NASA grade absolutely has to do with the quaility of parts and the rigid extreme conditions they can experience, it does not mean the same parts that are used in control panels in space ships, but the type of dielectric materials used in transitors, capacitors, circuit boards and their skin material. When combined, these type of materials and parts are much more efficient when dealing with severe heat and severe cold and have much lower defect rates and higher tolerance values. NASA is a term that reflects the type of high quality over the years that the military and aerospace apply to parts that result in the highest quality for communications, sound and observation. For example, Solen, Wima, Blackgate and Vishay are considered NASA grade quality and classification but are not used in military or aerospace programs but for high end audio products only. Again, its a classification term that applies to quality only. Besides, we are getting off subject, this thread is about Mcintosh and Accuphase. |
Quanmer...that all depends..the Ayre is extremely neutral and can cut both ways..do you like your sound to be highly analytical in the center of neutral or do you favor a warm full chesty midrange?.. |
Boy...how dumb can you get?..quality as NASA defines it has nothing to do with sound quality ?..Dead wrong..example..a medium NASA grade capacitor from V-Cap can cost up to $ 300 per cap..due to its dielectric materials..speed..and clean sound they are known for..more liquid..a lower grade cap with the same capacitance with cheaper dielectric materials costs $ 30.00..who determines their NASA grade?..the circuit and layout designers and the companies they work for..thats who..why do you think 100% OF ALL HIGH END COMPONENTS HAVE NASA GRADE PARTS.. BETTER SOUND QUALITY..if that were not the case the high end market would be dead and Audiophiles would just buy their electronics at Radio Shack... |
Additional note..I first learned of the term " NASA grade" in Stereophile back in the eighties, when a reviewer examined the inside of an amplifier and stated "very impressive..NASA grade parts throughout"..also T_bone,..you agree that Accuphase uses better sounding parts?..when you already stated that NASA quality has nothing to do with sound quality..how absurd!..you missed my whole point..and that is the term "NASA"..refers to the very best quality in materials used in high end parts, as used in Accuphase, which results in superior sound quality. |
Taters..Absolutely they do..its a standard of quality.. NASA does not certify or deem these standards..but were the first to develop high quality parts for electronics for Aerospace and Military applications that had a major influence on High End Audio in the 60's and 70's..setting a standard for the High End Audio companies to draw from. |
T_bone..your comments in the novel you just wrote are redundant..all these issues have already been answered..in reality, NASA was influenced by high quality parts that were taken from circuit boards removed from the dash boards of the UFO's that crashed in Roswell on July 4th, 1947 on Matt Braswell's farm..we can thank the Aliens for High End Audio..God bless those little grey's... |
T_bone..I have studied the Audio industry religiously for many years..going all the way back to the invention of two channel at CBS Labs in 1934..the three classifications of component parts has been referred to and discussed in many articles and reviews I have read over the past 25 years, and not just a one time discovery from Stereophile hyperbole..and is a term that is common knowledge with Audiophiles who were members of the State Audio Society I belonged to for several years..and is also common knowledge amongst circuit designers..it appears that many Audiophiles who have responded to this subject on this thread, lack the education and awareness of these standards, and never have taken the time to study parts designs and how they are classified, have to mask and cover up their ignorance with cynicism.. those who are not familiar..need to get beyond " college level audio syndrome" and delve deeper and study the classifications of Audio parts which will give you better insight why those, who can afford, buy exotic designed amps and preamps costing $ 30K or more for the very reasons I have discussed..many of my Audiophile friends are aware of NASA grade as common knowledge..Where have you been?... |
Tzh2ly..faster or slower?..easy to explain..which pertains more to the amp than the Preamp. The rate of speed from the amp's output to the Speaker is called the slew rate and is measured in milliseconds. The higher the number, the faster the signal to the speaker. Its like rpm's in a car engine. Amps with slower slew rates sound sluggish and dull. If you want the best sound qualities of tube and solid state amp performance and can afford it, hook up a Luxman C-1000F Preamp to a pair of Bel Canto Reference 1000M monoblocks, with a Luxman D-08 SACD player, and the new Sony SS-AR1 speakers. This combination due to its design science, will take you to the gates of Audio Heaven regardless of price, providing you all the best dynamics, detail and smoothness and richness one could ever hope for. |
