ABX testing with AQ Dragon power cords

You know I’ve read the criticism of ASR and how badly they treat people with different opinions. My goal on posting my experiences here is not to stir up crap and cause trouble. If anything I’m providing a counterpoint. I’m not bashing those that believe power cords make a big difference nor am I demanding that you agree with me. They are valid experiences that support the contention that in some circumstances cables sound the same. But sarcastic posts as I’ve encountered here (audphile1) show that ASR isn’t unique, people don’t like to read experiences that differ from theirs. They find them threatening.

No sarcasm. There are no audiophile credentials. My neighbors are as able to hear discernible differences in sound as you are. For some the entire premise of these threads when someone describes how two sets of cables sound the same is to diminish their experience. 

For the record, my dealer told me I should hear a difference in these cables within 10 seconds of playing. He welcomed the idea of asking my neighbors to listen. I welcomed him to come to my house and listen for himself. I can't imagine the reaction here if he can't hear a difference with a blind test, but he's willing to try.

I have Mogami cables made by Take Five Audio in Canada. The speaker wire are Mogami 3104, XLRs are Mogami 2549 & the power cords are Powerline 10 with Furutech connectors. All cables are quite well made and I’ve been using them for about 5 years. 

AQ Dragon is the top of the line power cord from Audioquest. My neighbors both have ears, 2 channel systems of their own and have spent time in my house listening to my gear. But you're right, they didn't show me their "audiophile" credentials.

It wasn't meant to be sarcastic. When you said "I never heard the AQ Dragon" I misread that as I never heard of the AQ Dragon.

What part of my post is unbelievable? The fact that I heard no difference? Not much I can do to prove that. Or do you dispute the existence of the Dragon cords? I still have them, maybe a photo will do. As for my previous experience with cables I specifically said I swapped some Transparent Super speaker and XLR cables. No where near $80k.

I get that it's difficult to read experiences that don't match yours, but that doesn't make them any less real.

There was no noise with my neighbors on the previous post. I said that I had neighbors interested in hearing the difference but my opinion of the sound is all that matters to me as I’m paying for it. Funny thing, you responded that Neighbor blind test is the ultimate one of them all. You get the true ABX blind test using non audiophiles who are not familiar with your system. Now that I had a neighbor listen you say it’s a useless endeavor.

What the dealer said isn’t terribly relevant to the premise that I tested some AQ Dragons with my power cords and heard no difference. As for your doubts that I evaluated these cords, here they are. Your need to not hear opposing experiences is making you look foolish.

Proving that either your ear is immune to the differences or your system is just downright amazing and is resistant to any cable changes.

There is a third possibility.

Yes, let’s. First you refer to my experience as lies yet keep telling this $80k lie even after I corrected you.The Transparent Super speaker cables cost $2,200 and the two pairs of Super XLR cables sell for $1,600 each.

The Dragons sounded the same as these from TakeFive.

You blame my hearing since you have run out of other typical reasons (system not able to resolve, poor acoustics etc). But that would also mean that the owner of the other shop that lent me cables also has poor hearing. I have specifically not mentioned the brand of those cables as he’s a small manufacturer and I don’t want to harm his business. I still have those as well and can take a photo with the brand hidden if you're calling me a liar there as well.

Another possibility that you regularly ignore is that there was no difference to hear.

You posted a ton of it no doubt. You called me a liar, misstated what I'd posted repeatedly and I addressed every question, every lie and still you’re not happy.

Just imagine if I’m right about the identical nature of these cables how much money you’ve wasted.

When your proof relies on such words as speculations,  seems likely (at least to me), lends credence, I would hope it's a given, just seems to me, not a big stretch to believe, I haven't tested this, it wouldn't surprise me.. you know you're speaking about subjective opinion and not substantive facts.

@rodman99999 If I believe in science to determine whether cables make a difference you say I'm in a cult. If I trust my ears and audition cables and decide there is no difference you ignore that and c/p reams of arguments that have nothing to do with my post. Given your posts and mine on this thread, who do you think an objective observer would guess was in a cult?

@rodman99999 I did exactly what you’re describing, I didn’t take anyone’s word for it, no one told me what to expect, I experimented with new cables 3x now and found no difference. I trusted my own senses. Yet still you’re pissed off at me for documenting these experiences. It’s almost like you’re only willing to hear things that you agree with.

As for the dealer coming by, he wants to hear for himself. I’m not trying to prove him wrong, I’m interested to see his reaction. If he could truly pick out his cables from mine reliably and blind I will have learned something. Maybe he could educate me to listen better as that seems to be my weakness. The same goes for the local cable maker. I’m going to be returning his cables in person and bringing mine. I look forward to be shown the error of my ways. I’ll gladly upgrade my cables if he could show me a reasonable improvement in SQ. It’s not the cost that bothers me, I don’t want to throw my cash away needlessly.

I am?

                   Thank you for telling me how I feel!       

The shouting caps and repeated reference to the Church of Naysayers were my clues. That's not typically how calm differences of opinion are discussed.

@audphile1 The owner of the amp/cable company heard no difference. He still thinks that there is a reason for it and is working to help me determine why. Unlike you, my mind is not closed to other opinions. I have no skin in this game, my ego doesn't need me to be right. If I can be shown that these cables are worth buying I'll ante up and be happy for the improved SQ. You argue and call people liars to protect your fragile ego.

@zuesman The front edge of the speaker is 4' from the wall. I've tried other positions and this was the best for me. There is a 7" monster bass trap behind each speaker and a 17" square soffit trap in the corner. The soundstage is great.

@zuesman I’m talking about the wall behind the speakers too. The front edge of the speakers is 4 feet from the wall behind them. But I’ll give it a try later today & move them another foot from the wall, change the toe-in and see what I think.

I've moved the speakers out & closer a bit. The center of the speaker is now 55" from the back wall. The speaker centers are 82" apart and the listening position is 82" from the center of each speaker. I listened for awhile & I do like the sound so I'll keep it like this for awhile & play some records. Time will tell. 

Oh relax. I put an ammeter on the surge protector that the amp & pre are plugged into and while playing music at my typical level they were drawing under 2 amps.

The unit next to the Lumin is the Sbooster power supply as detailed in the OP.

Way ahead of you. I already moved them both to the wall and compared again. No change in sound but I'll continue tomorrow. But it's a power bar, the two units draw <2 amps, nothing else but this system is on the circuit, how is it being choked?

I'd been considering a PS Audio 12 or AQ Niagara 5000.

Yes, but only with the Dragons. I'm returning them on Tuesday so I plan to listen to them for 2 days and then swap back for a couple.

I guess that's why blind comparisons are better.

Not when it's a 5 hour drive to your house from the store. Initially he said he would come when the equipment arrived but through our discussions he asked if I was ok to set it up. There was a local rep for Pure Fidelity that came out to set up the turntable.

Ha, it takes no courage to anonymously discuss an experience with strangers. Audphile1 began a little rough but came around and offered some helpful info in the end. I appreciate comments from all, those who agree with me and those who don’t. I try to learn something from all.

I plan to try a PS Audio P12 for a bit as the power where I live is known to be noisy and prone to brownouts and surges.

I went to Hans Looman’s house (owner of Infigo) on Friday to return his cables and compare his/mine on his system. All he has going is a streamer, DAC, a pair of the monos that he produces (Method 3 I believe) and some Dutch speakers whose name I forget. We swapped his XLRs for mine back and forth a few times and then swapped his speaker wires for mine. He could hear a difference each time but I didn’t. Then we listened to the same song (Uninvited Alanis Morissette) with his speaker and XLR cables and at that point I could hear a much larger presence to the music. I don’t know all of the adjectives that people use to describe music but it definitely sounded better. Not a huge and alarming difference but the kind of thing that once you feel it (as the main difference was the feeling of the bass in my chest) you want to feel it again. So I plan to get the P12 and continue experimenting.

Hans’s monos cost $55k US a pair I think and sound amazing.

Btw, I returned the Dragons yesterday via Canada Post... same way I shipped back the Transparent cables. I'm not going to accept any more free trials as the cost of shipping & insurance is too much. So far it's cost me $350 Cdn mainly because of the insurance. And at that I'm only able to insure up to  $5,000. 

It's working out fine. I've toed them out a touch and moved them a bit closer to the wall, still about 52" from the wall to center of the speaker.

None that I could hear. I've been told that it's because of my shitty construction grade outlet.

Boy the gatekeeping on this cables topic is intense.

So mclinnguy came over with his cables so we could experiment and see what differences we could hear. Initially we listened to the system as it was, Mogami 3104 speaker wires, Mogami 2549 XLR cables & Powerline 10 awg power cords with Furutech FI-11 Cu connectors (referred to as stock cables previously in this thread). I played some of my favorite songs & some songs that mclinnguy wanted to hear. I repeated them as necessary until  he was ready to swap cables. 

We started by  using the Puritan conditioner  and connecting the amp/preamp/Lumin to that. Then we played the same music. Neither of us could hear any difference

We swapped speaker cables. No difference.

Then we swapped power cords & the XLR between the pre & Lumin. Both of us could hear a slight difference.  A little more & fuller treble & mids. mclinnguy thought there was more difference than I could hear. I suggested that he let me swap some stuff blind and he could tell me what he thought & he said "I know, you're  one of those guys". We had a brief discussion about the value of not letting your brain override or determine what your ears are hearing but in the end I didn't push it & we swapped back to my cables. The change was not significant but there was a slight noticeable change.

The bit with the sub was more of me being a dick than anything. mclinnguy felt that the sub was loud so  I used the app & said ok, better? He said yup and I told him that I hadn't  changed the sub. It's not like he gave it a lot of thought. The only reason I did that was to try to make the point  that your  brain will tell your ears what they're hearing & by  thinking I'd adjusted the sub he believed the music sounded better.

Overall the most noticeable change (for me) was the swapping of the amp. But a lot of the difference was because it was much louder at the set volume of my preamp. So it was difficult to tell  if the amps sounded that different or if increased volume made it seem so. But his amp did sound good, for a fraction  of the price of mine.

It's my honest opinion that if he & I were to hear the system with his cables & my cables and we didn't know which was which neither of us could reliably choose either set of cables as "better". But I also believe that it's possible that different cables could sound better, I just don't think that the brain can store a sample and compare it to another sample reliably 5 minutes later. When I adjusted the sub the effect was immediate & we could both tell that something had changed.

No, I have no account on ASR. My room is square but treated and is vastly better sounding than when it was untreated. My McIntosh/Lumin/Pure Fidelity gear seems like it should be able to resolve properly. If my ears are bad then so are the ears of 4 others who came to my house to compare cables... including a guy who manufacturers cables. He also complimented the room acoustics and my equipment.

I doubt I'll be swapping my MC462 for a Pyle amp and my Lumin T3 for a Realtek DAC. I assume that's the gear you're sporting so you've got that covered.

Funny thing, you're proving how correct my quote was about how similar the treatment of dissimilar views here is with ASR.

@hdm  yeah all of my TakeFive stuff was cryogenicallly treated (by default by the vendor) and had the optional burn-in (it was cheap, wth). Funny thing, in this thread the power cables were referred to as "stock cables". Whatever.