10Ts are on the stands w/castors!. No points under anything. Frontend is Classe CDT-1 Trans into Classe Dac, Sony 7700, DD Satellite, Classe Tuner. Can't cornor load system in L. Tried moving head up-down-side-under my ass etc, same for speakers. Heads swivel on 10Ts. Am pointing one speaker more towards open L (does sound better this way). Maybe its my 50yr old abused hearing + room. I do have hearing loss for years now, maybe getting worse. I'am going to place system in 11x16x8 room. My experience and common sense lends me to believe it should work fine. If not i'll sell the 10Ts and try a smaller speaker for the smaller room. Would like to try a speaker with a Ribbon Tweeter. Any suggestions with Classe pre and amp. BTW after visiting the dealer and listening to a tubed AR preamp (?) and Pass X350 and 10T, i was shocked how Sterill Sounding and Bright the combo was. Maybe the AR pre was SS. Wasn't really interested in the electronics. Didn't like the sound at all. Maybe the 10T is not the speaker for me. This is my second pair of 10Ts. Need something more exciting. Ever since CD was intoduced the music just never sounded the same. Years ago just put a record on, look at the cover and jam. I just don't know anymore. Seems like all the manufactures are shooting for transparency and missing the involvement and emotion of the music. Same for most new material. Were are the singing guiters hiding? or the magnificent orchrastra in the background. Their not in my living room. Bet their hiding in Albert's living room!!! |
Mikec:
Do you have treatment in first reflection points in the walls?
Is your ear level listening position the same as the 10 T tweeters?
Do you perceive better highs if you move back / forht or side to side / up down from your current listening position?
What´s your source / do you have rack? how about if you have spikes under CD player or power conditioning
More info might help to better understand what your situation is
Regards |
Hello Mikec, I also have an "L" shaped room. I'm set up in the corner of the "L". Also have an open stair in the corner. 16ft long x 12ft wide with a vaulted ceilng 8-12ft. Thiel CS5i's, Classe CA-400, ARC LS-15, MIT 330 med bal, 330 shotgun bal, 770 twin cvt. I devided the length by 5th's. So my speakers are a bit over 3ft from the wall. I sit in a leather sofa against the opposite wall, about 9ft away from them. The speakers are about 9ft apart. For these speakers, I guess that I'm in the near field. I had to work on toe in with the highs. But everything sounds great. The only treatment that I use is a throw rug on the wall behind my speakers. My dealer told me to be careful not to "over" treat the room. I also have wall to wall carpet with a throw rug in the center. An "L" shaped room can work, it just takes a lot of placement to get it right. You might want to borrow a tube pre from your dealer to try with your CA-300. Good luck! |
Thanks Bob, i have 2 critters myself, love em to death. The glass is wall to wall behind the speakers presently in L shaped room. Can't figure it out, should be more revealing uptop, its not! Would really like to try setting up in 11x16 room. Lot of pressure will be in that room with this system. |
IMO your room is not too small. There are other issues at work here, synergy being the primary I believe.
Not sure where you're going with the 'glass' question but certainly it reflects. I had a pair of split glass doors on my heavy wooden component rack (which I very rarely closed anyway). One day the cats were roughhousing & banged hard into one open glass door, stripping out a hinge woodscrew. In the process of effecting a repair, I removed both doors from the rack. The rig was playing & as I was walking around the house I noticed an improvement (a reduction of midrange glare, which I had been trying to figure out for some time). Following some brief critical listening, we decided that those glass doors were never again going to be installed. |
Thanks everyone so far. The sound does get more harmonic in the perfect nearfield but highs are still subdued. I sit a few feet behind the ideal nearfield cause of room asthestics. Has to be the room, this is the 2nd setup and 3rd pair of speakers used. I almost feel like stripping the room, padding and rug (hardwood under) also and starting over in a live room. Also have a smaller room that is 11x16x8 closed in rectangle w/hardwood floors and sheetrock walls/ceiling. Not bad measurments to start with except the 16long and 8ft height (multibles are said not to be ideal). Dealer tells me this room is too small. Is this room too small for the Aerial 10t with 300W Classe ca300? This is a live room that can easily be set up using the Cardas Method and perfect nearfield triangle. This room can also be treated anyway i want. One long wall has a cement firewall behind it and easy to run a dedicated 20amp line or 2. I really don't believe everything my dealer tries to tell me. I know more than most of the floorpeople, but so does everyone else! Give me your blessings that the 11x16x8 room is not to small. I'll go for it, lot of work!! Spks will end up 36.432 from side walls and 59.136 from center of woofer to woofer (pretty close together for 10Ts) and 59.004 from backwall and 59.004 to listening position with 73.992 left behind listening position. Can any rocket scientist evaluate this? Will it work? I know try it and see, but a huge choir for me if the room is too small. Thanks Mike |
While this may be heresy to some, I've found that a slightly asymmetric setup works best in an L-shaped room. The end result is based on a LOT of listening, as well as a great deal of computer simulation analysis.
In my case the right speaker (the one near a side wall) is a few inches forward of the left one. The speakers are also positioned so that the inside corner of the "L" is near the point of first reflection of the left speaker to help balance the overall presentation.
Now someone will tell me how horrible a sound this must create and burst my bubble. And after all that analysis... |
Something is suspicious here as the Cardas placement's whole goal in life is to reduce the effect of the room on the sound.
Perhaps you are too far off-axis. You might try some toe-in and see what happens.
Also, some speakers work well in a 'nearfield' setup and some don't. I don't know about your speakers specifically but you might look for some opinions there. How far away from the speakers do you sit in the dealer's setup?
HTH. |
A friend of mine was also battling his L-shaped living/listening room. Currently he is putting his system in the corner diagonally toward the other corner of the L with good results. Maybe you can give that a try if space permits. Another possibility is getting a screen or some sort of room divider to corner off your listening area, again, if space permits.
BTW, play with different cables if you can. I have MIT cables myself and they are a bit on the warm side, which is great for my otherwise over-bright system, but maybe a little too warm for systems with more neutral-sounding equipments.
Good luck and happy Listening. |
Thanks Macm, i did go back to the dealer (yesterday) to have a listen to another pair of 10Ts. Big difference on top. The dealer demo's seemed ear bleeding to me compared to my 10Ts (both new version) in my room. The dealers room is heavely treated with thin carpet on a concrete slab (I'm on wood). I use a Classe pre, transp and ca300 amp w/silver ic & dig, MIT mid level spk cable. the dealer was using an AR pre, CDP and Pass 350 amp w/mid level MIT. I do have overstuffed leather couch, also have throw rug over carpet in front of speakers. Nothing wrong with the tweeter (its working and clear, just ROLLED OFF). Can my bad odd shaped room cause this? The L is 2 equal points! Anyone ever place the 10Ts on the Long Wall? This is a big job to place on Long wall, just to try! Dealer is trying to talk me into, like 4k worth of treatment. I told him thanks but i'll build my own if need be! |
Glass reflects. The carpeting and padding will dampen reflections, but it's impossible for another person to tell you if it's excessive in your system without hearing it. Best to compare your sound with what you hear in a friend's or dealer's system to decide if it's too much. Where you might get into overdampening is if you have heavy curtains or Persian rugs hanging on walls in addition to heavy carpeting and overstuffed furniture. I would think that the carpeting and furniture alone probably wouldn't pose too much of a problem if any. |
