a remarkably basic question about Roon

And I think that’s the key point here. Some talk about Roon as though it is incredible and god’s gift to music. It’s not. It’s software.
 

Like all software it comes with bugs and like all software the content, process and UI are very personal  things. Some can live with the issues and some cannot. Evangelising helps no-one make an informed decision.

Well done to Roon for spotting the gap in the market but perhaps less well done for not recognising the inevitable shrinking of that gap as manufacturers step into it and for electing to take the traditional route of largely ignoring customer feedback,

Despite protestations to the contrary a user base of 100,000 world wide is very small and shrinking, Assertions to the contrary confuse Roon certification and Ready status with actual users. The numbers of the latter likely do outstrip the number of users and to not very bright people they probably suggest the user base is massive. The reality is no more complex than that of devices which come with Bluetooth. Some manufacturers include it because they think it’s a valuable tool. Others include it because not including it would exclude them from the market space in which they expect to compete. My example would once again include Innuos. Every device they sell works smoothly with Roon. Few Innuos Sense/2.x users will actually be using thar functionality at this point simply because the latter sounds way better. 1,000 sales of a product which Is Roon certified does not equal 1,000 Roon users any more than it indicates 1,000 Bluetooth or Spotify `connect users.

I have no reason to use Roon now. The UI is not especially accessible and the sound quality can’t compete with Sense. However, even if it did I don’t find it’s use of data from AllMusic especially helpful, enlightening or even competent. In the same way Amazon continues to recommend albums to me that I already own, having bought them from… Amazon… the recommendation engine of Roon is basic at best. “Give me less well known and largely mediocre facsimiles of what I already own or have listened to.” For me that’s useless functionality. For others it regains something outstanding. If you enjoy music that you get out of that then brilliant. Each to their own. However, far better to walk into that knowing the reality of it than believing it to be some previously unheralded work of programming genius.

I absolutely stand by my previous assertion re: lifetime membership. There is no software on the planet which will last your lifetime. As several bids to buy Roon have recently been rebuffed and both would have used it to serve only their own product base then it’s a matter of time really. Nevertheless if it represents value to you and you have a lump sum available then go for it. 

Roon is comfortably outstripped by Innuos Sense/2 and, although you’d not think so reading any forum about it, the interface is not for everybody. Roon may not feel like it but it’s user base is small and more and more manufacturers will be eventually do as Innuos have done squeezing it further. A lifetime membership is a luxury some can afford but fairly dumb otherwise. Not a lot of software lasts beyond a decade. 

@shooter41 so how did that lifetime membership of Squeeze work or Limewire or Napster work out? Hey you signed up for the first Office 365 lifetime too. They all look a bargain now.
 

Far from “falling over themselves” many manufacturers are avoiding it completely especially since Roon thought it wise to launch the Nucleus in direct competition with them. The world wide user base for Roon is around 100,000 so hardly massive but also falling slowly since a few manufacturers produced interfaces that start to complete in the same ball park e.g. Innuos and which comfortably beat it for sound quality.

I don’t see anything in my previous post assuming Roon would remain static. Do point out that quote. I’m visually impaired but even with zooming in I’ll be darned if I can either recall saying it or see why I’ve said it. Oh, I didn’t. Roon evangelists are like all evangelists. Largely beyond rationality. You read what you want to read and believe what you want to believe but…

Going forward they’ve a reasonably competent UI and there aren’t a great many major leaps to be made. The gap between them and other manufacturers is going to close not increase and, again as with Innuos, a lot of people are going to look at it and wonder why they’re paying for something others are giving them for free which is more than good enough. I’ve no price increase to hedge against as Sense does more than enough of what is needed.

Not sure that slagging over others for not liking the interface makes you look any more rational either. The UI does not work for everybody. It’s as simple as that. As someone with a VI for example it falls well below acceptable accessibility standards and cannot be customised in a way which would make it workable for me or others. 

Specifically which of my comments do you believe to be ignorant? Lifetime membership has yet to be lifetime for any software ever. Roon won’t be the first. Most people don’t use Roon and the user base can factually be demonstrated to be remarkably small given the numbers of people who stream. 100,000 or so use it but recently they have levelled off as updates have been less than stellar and, as already stated, other manufacturers are producing their own apps which not only suffice but also improve on the sound quality.

As regards my VI, frankly, how dare you. Comment on posts not posters. You criticised @mrcorky for comments re: the UI by asserting it as a “paragon of simplicity”. I responded to that by pointing out that actually that UI does not comply with accepted accessibility standards. Ergo, one of the several reasons I don’t use Roon, and this is a comment made by many older users as well as those with a VI, is that whilst it’s a relatively clean UI, it is actually pretty bad design for many users and does not comply with accepted/required standards.. They are also not especially good at listening to user feedback on UI issues. That seems to me to flow quite naturally. Your comment however jars and I find it straightforwardly and intentionally offensive.

Far from it @shooter41. If it’s not relevant then I don’t raise it. Struggling to see how it would not be directly relevant to how people found a UI. 

Well quite. It’s been reported. My understanding was that ad hominem attacks were prohibited.

@northman do you have outstanding queries about Roon? How have you been finding it since you started your trial? You’ve not posted at all on this second page aside from the above request. Thoughts on the interface? Recommendations “engine” etc?

I feel fortunate in that my initial trial with it left me feeling somewhat under-whelmed by sound and UI but then I was rather over-taken by events and the Innuos Sense app. However, it’s always interesting to get other sensible impressions in case there’s some “must have” that you’ve/I’ve missed. 

There has been some dissatisfaction from some older users in relation to 1.8 and an overwhelming sense that Roon are becoming a little Devialet like in their approach to customers in terms of largely disengaging. New users seem less unhappy so I’d be interested to hear where you sit. 

I and others have tried engaging them with regard to the UI and accessibility. It seems they will go their own way regardless. That seems to me to carry risks. Although it was suggested earlier that they’re not small I would say that there is some confusion on the matter. The user base world wide is 100,000 or less. That should not be confused with the number of manufacturers who have signed up to certify etc. That potentially provides a false sense of security in terms of things like lifetime membership. Lots of devices come with Spotify or Tidal Connect. Partly because some people use them and partly because manufacturers cannot afford to be perceived to be providing less functionality than others. Much as I love Qobuz I do wonder whether I’d have bought an Innuos if it only had full Qobuz integration. Not everybody with Roon Ready or Certified devices will use Roon and indeed the stats suggest the exact opposite. Indeed Innuos devices are a fine example. All work brilliantly with Roon but most users are dropping it because it can’t now match the SQ via Sense.