A question of bass... Several actually.


I recently auditioned Dynaudio 72's and Rega R3's.
I enjoyed them, the Regas mostly. I found the Dynaudios didn't live up to their hype.
When I asked about bass (speakers having full bass response) the salesman (who owns the shop) said "If you want bass you have to shell out the big bucks."
Is that it?
Is it necessary to spend $1000 per speaker or over to have audible, palpable, appropriate bass reproduction?
To be clear I am not talking about disco dancing bass, but bass frequencies are a necessary part of the audio spectrum.
The salesman also mentioned that for high end audio a separate subwoofer is not appropriate as it "doesn't track."
To cover this fully, doesn't putting the amp output into a sub's crossover to be split to satellites compromise imaging etc?
rhanechak

Showing 8 responses by knownothing

Rhanechak - what amp did you have driving the Dynaudios? My experience is that the A 72's can go very low and loud when driven with sufficient power (300W or more into 4 ohms). The Regas on the other hand are more efficient and can run on less juice - like that produced by a Rega amp...

Bass reproduction is a two-way equation, power to control vigorous driver movement and a combination of driver diameter and throw to move a lot of air. The smaller the driver, the faster and further it has to move to displace the same amount of air as the larger diameter driver. I have heard phenomenal bass from stand mount monitors when driven with lots of clean power. They weren't hitting impossibly low notes, but the notes they were hitting were controlled, clear and loud.

So, I might say that while it is not "necessary to spend $1000 per speaker or over to have audible, palpable, appropriate bass reproduction" it may be necessary to spend $1000 per channel of amplification to get it.

Subwoofers are an entirely different story, and the trick there is that most better ones come with their own capable bass amplifier designed to control the woofer. The idea provided above to split the signal after the preamp and drive a high quality monitor with a high quality but lower wattage tube or SS amp, letting the sub fend for itself is a good one. Sub speaker integration is usually possible, but takes some fiddling, and may actually require trying several subs with your system to find the best match.

With either the Rega or the Dynaudios, you should not need a sub unless you need the walls of your house and your heart to move with the music. As long as you feed either pair with adequate power (which would be more in the case of the 72's), they should reward you with nearly full range sound.

Good luck.
Absolutely agree with Tvad. The ProLogue one is a great little amp, but much better suited to the Rega's

In a recent thread I suggested the following amps to power a Totem speaker the poster was having a difficult time driving with a 100 watt SS integrated.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1237006681&openflup&12&4#12

I would add to this list the new NAD separates: the C 165BEE Stereo Preamplifier and the C 275BEE Stereo Power Amplifier. The integrated C375BEE will be just a tick less sophisticated than this pair.

These are very powerful, musical, relatively cheap and would mate quite well with the Dynaudios. I have heard the 72's with the precursor C 162/C 272 NAD separates to these new models, and it was the first time I decided I liked Dynas. And I liked them a lot. The NAD C 162 and C 272 separates or c372 integrated are still available a few places new at a steep discount, and occasionally used, and while slightly less powerful and resolving compared to the latest versions, would drive the 72's quite well.

The Rega/ProLogue one combination will sound really nice, but will never be a bass monster. The 72's are much more capable of life-like bass sonics if driven properly. But that would mean a different amp - and not necessarily a super expensive one. If you want both your highly nuanced mid range and treble with your a$$ kicking bass too, check out the list in the thread above.

Good luck.
Shadorne,

There is probably some curve you can draw where the cost of accurately reproducing bass notes increases geometrically with lower frequency, requiring increasing quantities of power, woofer area and box volume and bracing. SO yes, "accurate" bass costs a lot of money (and breaks your back moving it around your room).

But I do think you can get "good sounding and reasonably accurate" bass with decent floor standing speakers like the Audience 72 by driving them with a powerful and high dampening amplifier.

And I also think there is nothing wrong with using good subwoofers to augment your system's ability to reproduce the lowest notes, but it requires patience, a sound meter and a good ear to set things up properly.
Acoustat6,

You need more than a sound pressure meter in my experience. Most people's ears are more sensitive than a SPL meter and can integrate a lot more information in real time. SPL meter gets you on the green - your ears take you to the cup.
Rhanechak,

Careful listening is an acquired talent, which you already have based on your first post above. But I did see an Agoner in Cleveland with a pair of experienced ears listed for sale recently, 8.5/10 condition... (sold as is).
Shadorne,

Agree completely. Too bad it is often easier to change speakers than it is to change rooms...
Rhanechak, that's great! If the amp you are expecting is a PrimaLuna ProLogue or similar, you should have a very musical system.

Next up - the Source?!?
The source? E.g. CDP, DVD, music server/computer, Turntable, Tuner, Tape Deck, etc. - to go with your new amp and new speakers. Or maybe you are just telling me you are all set in that department...