A little help please


My room is 13' x 21' x 8.5' ceiling. Speakers are located along the short wall about 12-18" off the wall. They can't come out as they'll block an entrance way.  They are about 4' from the side walls. 

Currently I have a Prima Luna Classic Integrated with their standard tubes. Source is Rega Apollo R, MMF-5/Clear Audio Nano V2, or Proton DAC. Speakers are Totem Arro (no mass laoding).

I realize that my placement isn't ideal and my wife's need for decorating balance with furnishings,etc require some trade-offs but I just don't think these speakers are up for the job in some cases. Some songs, like acoustic blues, female vocals, even piano sound great but I'm sometimes finding other recordings seem to sound muddy and there's no real pop and umf on some drums; like I'm hearing music but not feeling it some times.

The totems are not mass loaded. I have heard that mass loading them will tighten up the bass. I could also try some different tubes, but overall I'm not sure either or both will make that big a difference. Which leads me to a discussion of a sub or some new speakers.

I lean towards new speakers.

Possibilities (depending on what I can get my wife to agree to in price and size) are:

PSB Imagine T2, Quad 25L, Revel F206 - As noted above there are decorating issues. A sofa is located about 2.5 feet in front of the right side. As it is now imaging is good, my concern with these is they all have some low driver positions that will be an issue unless I can relocate. Relocating to the long wall is an issue because I'd have to straddle a working fireplace as well as other considerations. 

A larger Totem Forest - leaves me wondering if I'll have similar issues with bass.

Audio Physic Tempo 25 (NOT the plus version) - demo from my local store.

Vandersteen 3A - Signature - also demo from my local store. These are likely too big for my wife's taste; and quite possibly my amp.

 
 One thing I didn't note so far was the possibility of a sub-woofer.  I'm not thrilled with the idea but I haven't given it an ear so I can't say.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks for reading and taking the time to respond, Jetson.
jetson

Showing 6 responses by akg_ca

I've owned both the ARROS and FORESTs simulaneously in prior systems, so I 
have some hands-on experience with both their strengths and their warts.

ARRO speaker positioning. If you move them out from the back wall , their ethereal "presence" and especially the limited-in-any case low-mid range to low end bass response falls off dramatically, to the point of extreme frustration. With a 4 inch mid-bass driver, you cannot defy physics. The differences are not subtle.

ARRO peak performance quotient:  they are not as power hungry as the FORESTs but still demand high-current quality build  electronics upstream for peak performance. 

As highlighted already, a quality build subwoofer will help out but if and on,y if .... a quality build audiophile grade sub. And please, no cheap wooly chuffing bass boxes that comprise the big chunk of the AV arena. The problem is that that type of sub will cost you as much or more than the ARROS themselves unless find a helluva deal used.

ARROs cable sensitivities: I experimented with a myriad of speaker cable contenders and pretenders . They are fussy speakers - the winners were the Totem Tress and Chord Odyssey or Rumour. The Tress is a knockoff of the CHORD .... Silver plated braided copper. Quality build ICs are another must have . I never found any cheap choices that worked - full stop. 

ARRO mass  loading - simply put .... Don't do it. Waste of time and the resulting sonic signature I found was a step down and that step down was not subtle. 

IMO, experiment further first with the status quo and smaller $$-conscious changes,  but IMO you will likely be either dumping the speaker or the upstream gear - your post indicates some serious absence of system synergy so far. Speaker  Repositioning may ameliorate some of your frustrations and it's a $$-saving first step in eliminating the unknowns.
IMO .... Consider new speakers as a better match to the gear upstream 

my first round of  contenders .... REGA RS5 or R5 , or even to the "7.s" if space and budget permits. A whole lot less fussy about cables, speaker positioning, great tight bass, industry leading mid-range performance ( they design AND make there own drivers in the UK instead of plunking chi-fi drivers in a box like most others)  and IMHO theyvare a whole step up from the ARROS or STAFFs blah blah.

highly recommended .

The brand new RX speaker series I have not heard, they were revised as one of the hits of the Bristol show, but they are a LOT more money .... Stick with the R or RS legacy series.
Ps

the Totems are a tough speaker to tweak to max performance . Up here in Canada they represent about the highest volume of brand turnover on the used market as people get fatigued with them . They can sound nice but the upstream gear synergy is a critical step.
if you are married to the Totems then I would suggest SIMAUDIO, AYRE or PLINIUS as best if breed . Totems own AMBER integrated amp (discontinued) was a joint venture with SIMAUDIO based on the SIM platform. The first three are frequently paired with Totems at the AUDIO paloozas 

I sold my ARROS and FORESTS and never looked back.

here us  a wild card speaker choice with any existing tube gear: a French speaker line that are very efficient and with tube equipment thet  blow away the majority of contenders and pretenders . They have many models. 

JMR ....Jean Marie Reynaud

Google Amherst Audio in Massaxhusetts and Google  the reviews 

they are not well known in the US yet but they are top-shelf kit in the Euro Zone. I heard them with Audiomat gear .... In a word .... "Yup!..."
full stop

FWIW
PPS

with REGA or NEAT or JMR or whatever you ponder, your Kimber speaker cables will likely be a better fit also = cash saving there also .
Totems and JMRs are completely diverse in their make-up.
The core problem for you is to avoid buying blind again and nobly relying on the recommendations of a third party, without actually auditioning the speaker / upstream kit set-up.

My two-bits worth:

dont gamble .... Full stop.

Drag your amp to a formal speaker audition either at a dealer or at a friend's , if you cannot borrow a weekend loaner in-house (preferred)

if if you are  going to roll the dice with no prior audition, that's über risky . You can mitigate that  risk -- to a degree--  by first inquiring what your electronics are frequently married up to at either the dealer and/or the audio paloozas. The quality audio mags reviews may be a decent first step to weeding out the herd down to a manageable lot.

In my experience, a quality British or Euro build speaker will likely have the ethereal sonic signature you may be seeking. Try to define what that is first, if Possible.

if you try to list what "you want" , that's hard.

But if formally list what you DON'T want , then I'm guessing that the points are helluva easier to identify as you compare your wish list to others experiences and search for""that" sonic signature. ( you know that they vary )

Then as you lazily contemplate the lint  in your navel as you scour the reviews (What Hi-Fi has a decent online , UHF Magazine also...)  
yiu make your notes.

An easy weekend sojourn: go personally audition the REGAs just as a first benchmark. I'm predicting that you may like what you hear .... and they have many dealers that make it comparatively easy to find a convenient local dealer.

Then scour Pinkfish media/ audio forum for a UK forum point of view of experiences and user posts. Canuckaudiomart is another source. 

Now you will have a base to compare to the next brand and model  on your list of contenders and pretenders 

Its a journey ...not a destination.