The study of human hearing is over 150 years oldWell then, inside the scope of human--and planetary--history, this gnat's fart of a research period ought to be enough cause to question our young-punk conclusions. We are mere infants when it comes to understanding our own functioning. So enjoy the music, or not.
a great take on big$ cables
i was talkin to a friend about cables & wire's & no matter how hard i try to tell him its not needed he wont budge because he has heard that big buck wires are the way to go,i even showed him this web page & after reading it his response was this "if they didnt work then why would they sell them" after talking for hours i gave up & gave him a demo,he heard no difference & neither did i but he still believe's.
there isnt alot of info published on wires except by manufacturer's so i thought i'd post this so every body could enjoy it.
this is a link to roger russell's web site where he gives his thought's on wire's & cable's & reports on blind testing that was done,if your not familuar with him he was a audio engineer for many years & from some of the gear i own that he designed i'd say a damm fine engineer too.
if you are of the belief that big buck cable's are not worth using you may get a chuckle but if your a firm believer then you might be bummed out,anyway's here's the link if you care to read about wire's.
{http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm}
there isnt alot of info published on wires except by manufacturer's so i thought i'd post this so every body could enjoy it.
this is a link to roger russell's web site where he gives his thought's on wire's & cable's & reports on blind testing that was done,if your not familuar with him he was a audio engineer for many years & from some of the gear i own that he designed i'd say a damm fine engineer too.
if you are of the belief that big buck cable's are not worth using you may get a chuckle but if your a firm believer then you might be bummed out,anyway's here's the link if you care to read about wire's.
{http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm}
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You guys act like it's all real, as though facts and truth are the same thing. Rocks are hard, that's a fact (yes, yes, I know that not all rocks are hard, but let's pick nits later). But truth is a concept, like beauty. Its really all in your heads. Are we really what we seem? Or could be we be artifacts living in something like the Matrix? Or just the dream of a sleeping god? Ultimately there is no way to know; one can obsess about it and either go nuts or found a religion, or one can just get on with having the experience. If it feels real, treat it like its real. Our brains use data from all our senses together. Close your eyes, hold your nose and taste a lemon; it'll taste different, but it's still a lemon. The fact that your senses act synergystically does not invalidate the experience. And not knowing why also does not invalidate the experience. You don't need to know why a rock is hard to get bashed in the head. I'm an engineer, and there have been many times in the past that I've confused facts with truth, it's an occupational hazard. When someone refers to the studies like those on Mr. Russell's website, they are bringing just as much preconceived baggage into their experience as anyone else, under the illusion that they hold The Truth. So what if copper1 is the same as copper2? Duh! What does that have to do with cables that are made by people in different ways to acheive specific effects, and just happen to use conductors? Are all cars the same because they are made of metal and plastic? Double blind testing is needed when there are subtle differences, and remember that "subtle" will vary: a trained perfume maker would not need double blind testing where a pig farmer might. These different cables whack me right in the ear, I don't need to close my eyes to be sure I'm not being swayed by pretty colors or esoteric theories (although I bet scientific studies would show that things sound better if you're happy!). Whew! Sorry for the rampage, I just drank some coffee (and actually I have done double blind tests to see if premium coffee is any different). Come to think of it, I've done a lots testing of beer too. It's all different, but that's OK with me. Savor the experience. |
I should make a disclosure: I will shortly be introducing a new cable that smooths out the quantum time smearing effect. This effect happens because there are many parallel universes where our multiple selves are listing to music at the same time, producing an interdimensional resonance in a previously unknown tiny organ in our brains. If that resonance is disturbed, it can make us feel that something is wrong. Due to quantum time effects, some of those universes get out of sync by a few tiny time quantum steps, causes smearing of the inter-dimensional image and disturbing the resonance. This is why so many people are alternately happy and unhappy when listing to their systems. My cables use a proprietary quark-based dithering technique to smooth out this quantum staircasing and restore the resonance, bringing back the feeling that everything is fine. The resonance can also be enhanced with my secret nutrient formula based on a 6000-year-old Assyrian recipe that uses 100% natural ingredients. Just down a few bottles of this while you are listening to my cables, and I guarantee you will feel good about your music. You won't even have to turn on your system to feel the effect. In fact, all you need are the cables and the nutrient to have a pleasant evening. |
We all know its in our mind. Cheap wire ... expensive wire, copper ... silver, tube ... SS, good hearing ... poor hearing. The fun is in the journey and the discovery process. I could end my year-old sojourn into this audio hobby right now if I wanted to. My modest system sounds damn good, but I like trying new components, including the wire family. Hell, most of us could save a lot of $$$ by getting hypnotized into believing our current audio system sounds perfect. It all comes back to our mental perceptions and my mind tells me to keep trying cables, amps, speakers, tweaks, etc., because ITS FUN!!!. My only fear is that my wife will insist on a couch session before I can get my amps cryo'd. So keep up the debates cause their a lot of fun too. |
science and engineering is still a little behind when it comes to measurement... any cable or piece of gear will pass signal... the question is it letting the "emotion" of the performance through (pretty "delicate" signal that cant be measured by NO INSTRUMENT !!!!!. when you find one, please let me know..) some people are tone deaf and in some audiophile circles some are tone/emotional deaf..(to find out, go buy a couple favorite albums and go listen to it on a Linn turntable in a really nice high end system... if you are not touched by what you hear(assuming the system is correctly set up... then you might be "emtionally tone deaf".. a lot depends on what a listener is "listening for"..... julian hirsch (aka stero review -a otl futterman amp sounds like a pioneer reciever) was case in point... |
Pabelson: But I do know why it sounds different.No, you mean you ASSUME. Based on what? Absolute self-appointed authority? It sounds different because you don't even bother to level-match before you do comparisons. Or it "sounds" different because you imagine it to sound different. That's the science you don't know. Go learn it.I'll let you level match the boombox to the main system. I'll bring my own sig gen, scope and distortion analyzer for you to do a better job. If you want, I'll calculate the Fourier transform for you on paper, how about that? Still think I don't know what I'm saying? A scientific approach is based on observations, forming a theory and then showing that the theory predicts correctly other events, not forming the "super theory" and sticking to it no matter what. Trouble is that with all that engineering knowledge I cannot ignore obvious OBSERVATIONS and you do. That's the only scientific difference, having an inquiring mind or dismissing what does not "fit our theory" based on "assumptions" like the quoted post (in its entirety - no editing). |
Cables that have larger capacitive or inductive characteristics than plain old speaker wire could act as filters on the audio signal, shifting it's tonal balance. If you've ever messed around putting caps and resistors in a phono stage to match a cartridge, its likely you've heard the difference these reactive circuit elements can make, for example moving the perceived depth of someone's voice forward or backward in the soundstage. I think this is a physical effect, not imaginary. |
Stever: You're absolutely right. And no one's ever claimed otherwise. All that's been claimed is that one brand of 12-gauge copper cable sounds exactly like another. If you want to make cables sound different, you have to make them *very* different--greatly increase resistance, or monkey around with capacitance and/or inductance. The former will attenuate the overall level of the signal, while the latter can cause frequency response roll-offs. Why you'd want a cable that wasn't flat is beyond me, but there's no accounting for taste. BTW, weren't you the guy who was planning to audition Transparent cables? You might want to take a look at what they're really made of: http://cable.tcnerd.com/whymit.asp |