I see no mention of acoustic upgrades only equipment. More equipment is just throwing money away on this problem. Only way to fix a limited space is acoustic treatment. A sub array may help too.
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Problem is you can’t isolate the room acoustics from the loudspeaker position or the loudspeaker, and given the op has limited space, then loudspeaker position and room acoustics cannot be decoupled and must both be considered to achieve the best results. In order of importance: Loudspeaker. Loudspeaker position. Room acoustics. w.r.t. George's comment, I don't think tall equipment between speakers is the biggest issue, but anything reflective between them can be an issue including equipment, televisions, etc. Things closer to the floor are less likely to be an issue. |
What speakers do you have @snarfie23? That almost look like something is broken. It is not a suck out, but a total shelving between about 220Hz if I am reading it correctly.
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How so and at what cost i.e. what did you give up/lose.
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If you want to get an accurate reconstruction of the depth built into the recording which is a mix of: - Volume
- Reverb and pre-delay
- Modified frequency response
You need smooth frequency response and to control reflections. How much is that affected by electronics or the myriad of other things suggested? Almost none. It can be affected by having your turntable set up properly including matching on the phone-pre, but most of the other things discussed are not what is going to help with depth. |
You are comparing an AV receiver that could be doing any number of things to the signal to an integrated 2 channel that could also be doing many things and add in differences in level and expecting them to be the same.
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From what I can tell in my limited time here @baylinor, it is a serious uphill struggle. Unfortunately it is easier to change a fuse or cable and claim a big improvement than to actually take the time, learn, learn some new skills, break dogma, and have a real, substantial, and long lasting improvement. Once you solve those acoustics issues, then you get even more enjoyment from that upgraded hardware. If you don't address acoustics, then you top out early in performance. Some audiophiles keep "tweaking" in hopes of moving forward. Others just give up.
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+1 sandthemall.
I am going to offend some people but I really question what their systems sound like no matter the superlatives. You have experienced yourself. There really is no substitute for acoustic treatment though advanced DSP like the BACHH may have some strong ability as noted with directional speakers.
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Dchang05, isn't this how you describe your new system?
I purchased BHK preamp, M1200, and P15 together three weeks ago. The
first week they sounded flat and dull, but now they are phenomenal.
So are they phenomenal or did you lose soundstage width and depth? Your old tube amps had pretty high output impedance which could cause frequency anomalies and depending on your speakers you could have shelving of the highs with the 1200s. Odds are if you equalized frequency response your perception of soundstage would be more consistent. Perhaps a better statement is that your amp, pre, DAC shouldn't impact sound stage (as intended) if they are neutral. The deep wide former sound stage may have been artificial. |
I read a lot of things written here as if they are gospel. I will give you my own experience.
Gospel? No. Physical reality yes. If your speakers are two feet from the wall it's easy to calculate where you will have a null in the frequency response. Sans room treatment it's a given echos front and back, sides may not be too bad given size and placement. Speakers at 2 feet, 10 feet apart listening at about 12? ... Some bass nodes at play. Room correction? You may very well enjoy your system but is the soundstage real or echo? Is it ideal? No. |
I have not made that little since the early 90s. Heed the expert from Atlanta who wrote the book on improving sound. ($500/day per session
My mechanic charges way more than that. On symmetry: Also a no. Reducing early reflections is everything.
The more symmetry, the more reinforcement of early reflections. While early reflections are very important the rest of this statement is nonsense unless you are breaking symmetry to fix a worse issue.
The rules of physics still apply. If there is not distance open to the wall behind your speakers you will fail.
The rules of physics still apply. This statement however shows a one dimensional knowledge of acoustics (physics). It's the different between knowing what you are doing and parroting rules of thumb from others. |
@roxy1927,
Do you think you are looking for a "realistic" depth of sound-stage or an enhanced one to suit your personal preference?
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So if you have a grid of 12, and they are not synchronized with each other, then how do you know they are not all cancelling each other out?
It's a shame an RF engineer (or any engineer for that matter) did not design those. He would have had the sense to use both sides of the PCB for the "coil" and increase the inductance.
Of course, it is not like there are any components on that PCB to tune the magnetic coil to anywhere near 7.83Hz ... not that there would be any efficiency as an antenna even if there was.
Of course I am sure the little, near useless antenna on those units will totally dominate over the much much higher power 60Hz that surrounds you .....
Buyer beware. Your mileage may vary.
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All this tells me is that you never addressed the acoustics if these were the biggest changes. A lot of flat-earthers think this is nuts, Do you kiss your Ted Denney statue before you go to bed? That statement is directly from his moronic Facebook echo chamber. I would be embarrassed to be a member. |
From everything I have heard of some amazing obscenely expensive
systems, right down to just above average systems, I have found the
totality of the small ‘lesser’ adjustments to make the biggest
difference, so long as the basic componentry is not average. It shocked
me at first, because like almost how we all started, the primary
components appeared to be most important. Do you believe everything you have read? I can assure you, this is most definitely not the case, with the exception of speaker placement, but that is hardly a lesser adjustment, that is pretty major. The next big one is room acoustics, and again, that is really major. However, if you follow what everyone is trying to sell, and what everyone is trying to justify they bought, then yes, you may convince yourself that the small details matter, and you can ignore the big stuff. You can't. Talk to actual acoustic engineers, people who build concert halls, etc. |
