A DAC that crushes price vs. performance ratio

Hi Teajay,
I also have long ago grown tired of the measurements versus listening debates. Interestingly I heard a system that used a Benchmark DAC. My listening impression matches your description. You had the added advantage of hearing it in your own system. In my case I can’t pinpoint how much I heard that could be attributed to the Benchmark DAC. Nonetheless what I heard was clinical, sterile and lifeless. If some consider this type of presentation accurate and transparent okay, that’s their call and I just leave it at that. I acknowledge we all have our specific preferences.

I want to hear the full bodied tone,rich color/harmonics/overtones and vividness that’s so obviously present when listening to live musicians and vocalists. I want the life, excitement, engagement and emotion, not flat, colorless and analytical despite the stated excellent measurements. In essence I'm seeking a 'natural ' presentation/sound quality.   It is certainly true, "to each their own".
Charles

 
Roxy54 does own a very good DAC.  The Lab 12 could be better yet.  The only way to sort it out is to get the DAC  into his system and just listen. All else posted here ( including my comments) is merely speculation albeit well intentioned. 
Charles 

Roxy54,
I wasn’t trying to discourage you at all regarding the Lab 12 DAC. Quite the contrary. I just decided to comment because of you mentioning the Holo Springs which I had direct experience with. I say go forward with your plans to acquire that Labs 12  DAC it could turn out to be fantastic in your system.
Charles

Roxy54,
I do understand the appeal of NOS and R2R chips and ladder topologies. I would just say that there’s more to the "big picture" viewpoint. I haven’t heard the Lab12 DAC SE but have no reason to question Teajay’s enthusiastic review.

A friend let me borrow his Holo Springs level III DAC so I could hear it in my system. As you know it is NOS and R2R discrete resistor ladder design. It was actually a very good  sounding DAC in my 300b SET/DHT Line stage based system. In direct comparison to my Yamamoto YDA O1a DAC we felt that both were organic in nature,   the Yamamoto was more ’alive,  extended and dynamic in presentation . In reality more emotionally involving. 

The Yamamoto is delta sigma(Texas Instruments 1794 chip) and over samples 8x (but with minimal digital filtering) no NFB or OP-amps. My only point is that you really have to listen to these DACs to judge their sound quality. Delta sigma versus R2R is only part of the story and I don’t believe that one can be declared superior to the other.

I hope you do get to hear the Lab 12 DAC SE in your system. Best of luck to you.
Charles

I agree with the comments in regard to the cost of the chips in the DAC under discussion. The cost of the chips isn’t a predictor of how the DAC will sound as a finished product. IMHO too much attention is placed on the chips to begin with. I’d summit that individually I/V conversion, analog output stage and quality of the power supply are at the very least as important. Collectively these three factors are I believe far more important in determining sound quality of a DAC.

I’m just a big believer in design, integration and implementation as being more impactful than isolating the contributions of the chosen chip set.
I honestly feel that power supply quality tends to be underappreciated in general when discussing audio components.
Charles 

Agree wholeheartedly with wcfeil. It'd be difficult to find a more irrelevant factor in my opinion than lack of an XLR output and its effect on component accuracy. 
Charles 

Al,
 Your rationale is easily understood.  The only reason to keep a tube amplifier is if it's clearly superior sonically to the solid state component.  In your assessment of the Pass XA 25 it is the sonic equal of the VAC.  That is an obvious compliment for the XA 25.
Charles 

Hello Al,
I’m not surprised that you find the Pass XA 25 a very good match with your efficient and easily driven Daedalus Ulysses speakers. Is the Passgoing to replace the iconic VAC Renaissance 70/70 or will you retain both? Pure class A minimalist circuits (tube or transistor) consistently produce a natural high quality sound.
Charles

Hello Roxy54, 
 Teajay used the Concert Fidelity DAC as his reference source for quite a long time and consistently preferred it to other highly esteemed DACs. Granted it's just one man's opinion but it does provide some means of a comparison/reference  point. I've heard the Concert Fidelity DAC in several different systems and can attest to its terrific sound quality, 

That teajay finds the Lab 12 DAC1 SE equal or even better sounding is at the very least a notable development given that  it is roughly 1/5 the cost. If you do decide to purchase this DAC let us know your listening impressions. 
Charles 

Teajay,
 I echo David_ten's comments regarding your contributions to fellow Audiogon members. I believe that quite a few people appreciate you discovering exceptionally good audio components and bringing attention and exposure to them. Keep it up.

It's bewildering to me why some people take such offense to the idea of affordable, high value components that are capable of providing high quality sound. This really seems to bother some people for some odd reason.  While I subscribe to the idea (in a general sense) that you get what you pay for. I've learned that in High End audio there are clearly exceptions to this axiom. 

There is not a strict  linear relationship between price and performance in the realm of audio products.  When someone such as teajay who has  vast experience with upper tier products and then touts a lower cost product as competitive,  this should be greeted with joy and appreciation. 

What is particularly peculiar is the immediate derision and negativity from people who haven't heard the product at all but dismiss it due to its affordability.  An unreasonable and unjustified reaction in my opinion. 
Charles