Seasoned wrote (regarding audibility of cables): "I wonder if those who can't [hear] don't have their systems set up correctly...."
While there were some softening modifiers added afterwards, I think this is the type of comment we need to avoid. While not in-your-face, the clear insinuation is that if you can't hear a difference, there must be something "wrong" with your system.
There are a lot of variables that impact how a systems sounds. Your room may be plagued with RFI and mine not. You may have a poor connection at an electrical junction box buried in your wall a couple of rooms away and I may not. Your speakers may be more reactive and present a difficult load to an amp sensitive to such issues while another system is more stable in this regard.
And we haven't even got to the psychological issues yet or the fact that different people do not prioritize the importance of various audio cues in the same order.
The goal is that each of us ends up with a system within our budget that makes us happy, not the other guy. To that end I think we need to remember that our choices are nothing more than that - ours. |
It seems to me that cable performance is non price hierarchical but rather to do the power in you house and the way your system matches to the wire, RF rejection, etc. |
Keep in mind that while some listeners can hear a big difference in cables, others can't. I wonder if those who can't don't have their systems set up correctly, with respect to speaker placement etc. Also, some systems are not fussy about cables...it's all sort of relative.
I once put a virtual dynamics power cord (Power 3) on my CD player and everything changed, including the bass became too strong; even my wife commented on it and she usually cannot hear any differences in upgrades. I ended up using a virtual dynamics nite power cord on the player and love it. Then one day, the cord developed an open circuit while I reconfigured it and I was forced to use the stock cord while the nite was sent back to Canada. Wow, I was back to mediocrity.
Everyone and every system is different. If you switch back to your original cables and do not notice anything, by all means sell your expensive cables and invest in more music. It's all a matter of opportunity cost...good luck and let us know how you make out. |
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I wouldn't dream of going back from my MIT EVOs. Saved a good while to get them and appreciate them every time I listen. Saving again for Oracle V1.1s. Will start with Cd to pre. Looking forward to it! |
Fatparrot,
I also hear a marked difference when downgrading the cables,components. Maybe because the new stuff usually has to go through a lengthy break-in period before you notice the improvement. The older cables need basically a short "settling" in period, so the ear has less time to adapt. |
I would not want to be forced to do a blind test.
I've spent to much on cables. Of all I've owned I like the Monster Sigma retro the best. I've tried a few expensive brands (will not mention the names). I've also heard cables that cost 6-7 times what the retros cost at retail. The guy who had me listen to these cables insisted they made a hugh difference. I heard nothing. If I had it to do over again I would probably stay away from the expensive cable game. It is amazing to me the claims made by people about cables. Keep in mind folks, many times people hear all this extra detail due to cables. This is after the very music they are listening to went through hundreds of feet of the cheapest cables available at the studio or concert venue. Cables that are being walked on and not properly cared for at all.
That being said, if you can truly afford it - go for it. My feelings about the cable game are the same as vman71. That is do they do anything at all. When I am being 100% honest, I honestly can't give you a definitive answer. I can tell you for the last 2 years when I need a cable I go directly to Frank at signal cable. I have not been disappointed yet. I also don't sit and wonder how much better my system would be if I spent $20,000.00 on cables. I've heard a system that had that kind of money tied up in the cables. All I could think while I was listening was this should sound better. I thought this because it did not sound any better than mine. We had the same amplifier and the same phono cartridge. |
I have found that it is much easier to hear a downgrade in performance rather than an upgrade. When doing cables, this is particularly easy, rather than having to switch out a big component. The "wow" factor is really evident on the downgrade, so swapping around should give you a definite answer!
Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon? |
You never need apologize for conducting your own back-to-back tests of what works best for you. If you put the old cables back and are pleased with the results, you can re-sell your expensive cables and save a bunch of money. If you find the expensive ones sound better, you can give yourself some peace that your money was well-spent.
While hardly unique to high-end audio, we can apply enormous psychological pressure to ourselves to conform to others' expectations. Heaven forbid that we not be sophisticated enough as trained listeners to not hear "obvious" differences! People we don't know might whisper behind our backs about our being country bumpkins or such.
It is very difficult for us to separate advertising hype, fads and fashions from what we really hear. However, I wish more people would do what you've proposed. Haul out the old stuff and do a reality check - compare it to the new. Then choose the one that makes sense to you.
Note that none of this requires you denigrate the one you don't pick. You are not writing your thesis for your PhD, nor are you declaring what is good and noble for the world at large. You're simply choosing some wire for your stereo. |
Bring your speakers out more. You have the space. I'm certain they can match the room acoustics much better if you experiment a little.
Also, this is a VERY inexpensive tweak.
As to cables, my feeling is Home Depot extentsion cord can sound as good as $1000 speaker cables. I have experienced it myself. Sometimes the expensive stuff merely sounds different, not better. There was a A/B comparison done by Absolute Sound a fre years ago and HD extension cord was near the top with multi-thousand cables. No kidding.
Please do compare and post your results.
Good Luck. |
The "how-much-improvement" depends---Lots of money and lots of exuberance/expatiation can make us happy; unfortunatly it seems to never end. I was reading an ad for 6ft. biwire at 17k. Then I think for those cables one should have near that amount in speakers--that amount in amplification--that amount in the front end,be it analog or digital.---Oh ya, ics to match. I think the parts need to be of similar quality to match the cost of wires. Meaning I think good wires improve good parts;but I think the "good parts" come first.---upgrading each as part of the journey.---I find I need a "fix" every 6months to a year, as I go along. Wires for me are last in the chain of money spent.I don't have a problem with those whom think differently. |
The results of every double-blind cabling test ever performed speak for themselves. The reluctance of proponents/salesmen of expensive cabling to engage in such testing speaks volumes. |
Great setup. Those alcoves for the speakers/sub might pose some significant bass management issues have you considered adding bass traps in the corners at the back of the alcoves?
I see the fronts of your speakers are brought forward from the edge of the wall- so edge diffraction should not be so much of an issue...nevertheless you might get a better imaging withe the speakers forward a bit more.
Strictly speaking you should close the gap between the frame and the center channel (make sure no gap) - a picture frame sometimes works well - a gap will give you edge diffraction issues and reduce the imaging.
I really like this room and setup...it looks awesome and that 71" screen has me drooling!! I hope my suggestions are taken in the spirit they are offered...just passing on some experiences...suggestions only and no criticism intended on what is one of the more impressive HT setups on A'gon. nice job. |
I'm very happy with my current cabling Me too...I use stock PC's, stock balanced XLR IC's and Monster speaker cable for surround speakers. I do use a power conditioner to get rid of AC line noise and to maintain appropriate voltage and it did make a small difference but apart from that I don't sweat or worry about what kind of copper wires to use between gear or those that connect them to an outlet. If simpy changing a cable makes a huge difference then it says more about the robustness and matching of the system components themselves than anything else. Good properly matched gear should not change presentation dramatically because of a different piece of appropriately shielded/sized wire that connects it to other components or supplies power to it. Just my two cents. |
Depends, as always, on the system. On my recent interim system consisting of my current Wadia, an Ayre AX-7e and B&W 804S speakers (no isolation gear or any of the other stuff I have now) I was using all kinds of low end cable with no issues (bettercables speaker cables, interconnects, Transparent basic Musiclin)k. When I moved up to my current system configuration I nearly went deaf from the horrid sound. I upgraded the cable and all was well. In the end, the improvement was beyond measurement.
Monster cable and power products will make your face melt (and not in the Jack Black good way). |
Vman,
Just do it. No one will laugh. |
