6SN7 tubes and variants question.

@tomcy6 

Thanks. This is essentially what I read. This seems to agree with what I read on Head Fi, that using a GT or early tube in something that was designed for the later GTA/GTB types, could cause problems. What I read made it sound like you could damage your component, where this says that you may just ruin a tube. Some of these early tubes bring some pretty silly money and the gear is certainly not cheap. I'd hate to ruin either one. 

Using a GTA or GTB tube in an older design piece of gear that was designed around the GT types is safe but this is not my situation. Still, tons of people have talked about putting the older GT's, W's etc. in modern components and they end up being their favorites. Most notable is probably the Tung Sol BG RP, seems to me the 40's or maybe early 50's. Can't remember but I'm guessing these are the older GT type. I have not taken that plunge yet, if you find them they generally run $200 each or more. So far, I'm getting plenty of enjoyment from tubes that have been $50 each or less.

There are several tube rolling threads several years back about the very preamp that i use, as well as it's other iterations. The tube compliments are the same in all of them, simply saying 6sn7 but always supplied new with modern versions, which I can only assume match directly with GTA and GTB types with 4.5 to 5w output. Nearly everyone agrees that the best tubes were the oldest, the ones made in the 40's that would have the lower output of 2.5w. None stated that their gear or the tube failed. I have seen a number of reported failures of the old Russian versions with metal base Melz 1578 and 6N8S, which are highly coveted but not without controversy. Many complain about noise which seems mostly attributed to bad solder (sometimes able to be repaired) and some have complained about early failures. Most of these tubes are 70's and 80's but there are versions back to the 50's as well. All speak of great SQ, if all in working order. I have interest in them but am hesitant as well. I have plenty of US made tubes to fool around with for now.

I have several of the older types but have not used any yet. I am enjoying several different varieties of GTA/GTB's but am looking forward to hearing the older ones that everyone raves about. I'd hate to think that they could be unsafe to use (for the gear) or that I would ruin the tubes themselves. Has anyone experienced any of these problems?

@immatthewj 

I think VT231's should be the same specs as GT's or W's as they were made for the military in WWII. GTA's came out around 1952 and GTB's in 1954, if I remember right. Anyway, I have a few pairs of VT231's, just haven't tried any yet. My RCA JAN 231's are the smoke glass not the black. I believe they are also labeled 6SN7GT. I also have a pair of RCA GT's in smoke glass that look slightly different than the VT version. I buy cheap singles when I find them, building a collection the hard way. I enjoy the chase though. At my age, I'm easily entertained.

I have a National Union pair of black glass GT's. I plan to try them today if they are a close match. Also bought separately, one came as a pair with a Sylvania GTB, the other I found by itself and it's a Westinghouse label but the exact same black glass tube. 

I'm waiting for a pair of Sylvania VT231's that I found a few days ago. They are also labeled 6SN7GT. Not sure if they are the bad boy or not. I have to study that a little more to understand which is what. I think the BB's are silver bottom if I remember right and I don't remember what this pair looks like. Seems to me they are silver bottom but the seller never called them bad boys so maybe not? I am still kind of anxious to hear them. 

@immatthewj 

Thanks for this. I have read all of this stuff repeatedly. You see some minor discrepancies here and there but the bulk of it is the same. W is the nomenclature given to the industrial versions (ruggedized) for heavy use. W's are popular. JAN is joint Army Navy and usually means something similar to the W, but I also read that the military versions are not always built to a higher standard. The VT231's are WWII, made for military and may or may not be any different than the civilian varieties. They do generally bring more money.

So..........cut to the chase, I guess. Have you used any early versions W or GT in your SLP 05? What did you think of them and did you experience any problems?

As for me, I have enjoyed Sylvania Chrome Dome GTB's (red letter) in the front and Raytheon GTB's in the back. This combination is pretty enjoyable. I have a pair of Raytheon VT231's on the way as someone (decooney maybe?) spoke highly of them in the rear position of their SLP 98. 

Pulling the EH tubes out after the first near 100 hours, has been enlightening. I didn't hate them but they just don't bring what the old tubes do. The goldpins were not bad in the buffer spot but after replacing them with the Raytheons, I'm not looking back. I'm a terrible reviewer. I simply don't have the descriptive words of a paid reviewer. Their "colorful" terms often leave me wondering just WTF they mean anyway. 

Yesterday, I switched the Sylvania pair out for an RCA pair of clear top GTB's. The Raytheons are still in the rear (buffer spot, I believe). This turned out to be a very pleasant combination as well. Both have good bass with Sylvania being maybe ever so slightly stronger there. Both with good detail, again Sylvania maybe with a slight edge but there is something about the RCA pair that is quite pleasant to listen to. I do have several others to try. 

@immatthewj 

Well, I hope we are talking about the same tube. The RCA JAN VT231 does get a lot of praise. My National Union pair has much darker glass, literally black like the Tung Sols. The RCA VT231's have a dark gray smoke glass which appears thicker in appearance than the RCA GT smoke glass, which is slightly lighter in color and apparently, the amount of smoke color. I have yet to listen to any of these but looking forward to it.

It looks to me that the Sylvania BB's are black plate. Some people like to brag up how many holes, Brent Jessee says they both sound the same. I've also seen both tall and short bottle and even Chrome top as BB but I think some are probably wrong. The credible ones all fetch $200 a pair and up. The Syl VT231 pair that I just picked up is gray plate. Probably not BB but I think I've read that they can sound very nice, Any of the VT231's get high praise so it appears. They would all be early to mid 40's to very early 50s'. One other difference can be the getter, type and placement since we find top, bottom and side getters all offered in 6SN7 variants. Not sure which the BB's should have but it seems like bottom from memory. Will have to check. 

@tomcy6 

Thanks. None of the crazy money tubes in the 6SN7 collection yet but many that seem favored and many that sound very good. Just tried the National Union pair of GT's last night and they sound very good. Nothing stood out as unusual, just a pleasant listening experience. Maybe piano sounded a little more natural than others I've tried. Bass was good and strong. Detail, air, all present. None have blown me away with soundstage but my speaker placement may be more at fault. They are quite far apart. I may try moving them closer together. Having them on the long wall in a rectangular room is less than ideal.

@tomcy6 

I would agree with them. Every system is different. Certain components may work better with a certain tube or cable but an overall system is usually unique unto itself. The more I read that a certain tube is favored by many, it gets my attention and I will often try that tube. Expensive tubes are most often expensive because the market drove the price up. Supply and demand simplicity. How some can be worth thousands for a pair is hard for me to imagine. I would hope they sound very good. I will dabble a bit into the hundreds per pair but not likely to ever hear or own the ones that are in the thousands, just can't justify it. Especially when I am already enjoying tubes that I find for $10 to $50 or so each. OK, enough words just to say that I agree. Thanks.

@immatthewj 

More tube rolling. Moved the National Union Black Glass GT's to the buffer position and put a pair of RCA  Smoke Glass GT's in the line/gain position. Maybe the best combination yet...........maybe. First time I've had 4 GT's in place. Was hoping to have the RCA VT 231's in but one tested with a short so had to look for and buy another. Still waiting for other VT's to be delivered, Raytheons and Sylvanias.

I have been testing everything with CD listening as it has been more reliable for me, having some battles with my vinyl rigs. I think I finally have most of the bugs worked out. Was using some custom made RCA's and ever since putting them in, I've been chasing my tail, trying to figure out what was wrong. I've changed tubes, numerous times, changed cartridges, turntables, everything except the damn cables. Cables and dedicated circuits in the works for next upgrades. 

I took the old Cary PH301 out of the system, thinking it may be the problem. It is getting quite old but to look inside, everything looks like new.........so who knows. Anyway,  using the SLP98 phono section now and was very pleased. First time I'd tried it with this tube combination and with listening to only one side of an LP, I was very pleased. Using Sylvania Gold Brand Gold pin 6189's and Sylvania Gold Brand Gold pin 5751's, which was always one of my favorite combinations in the old Cary. Probably had everything sounding the best that I've heard since owning the 98. Next thing to try is putting the PH301 back in as it should be even better than the 98 phono stage. Probably not by much but who knows. Will post as I make further improvements.