2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine


A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238

BIG IMPROVEMENT

yesterday someone on What's Best indicated la platine and Kuzma Safir was a bad combo because of the moving feet on la platine and safir's need for stable level platform.  they said one needed to use rigid feet  but the downside of that was the combo "lost its soul".

i had been considering trying rigid feet again (have tried previously but didn't like sound and tended to agree with soulless sentiment).

but of course things change all the time.  for example now i was truly floating on air.  plus frankly my recent experiments with silk, silk with chalk (heard people do this somewhere or other, for more grip i presume), suture silk, linen thread, rubber belts - none of it was satisfying me somehow.  now i had an instinct that double silk's "warmth" might offset the "clinicism" of rigid feet.

i use shaknspin2 to measure w/f and speed.  typical measurements will be 0.07/0.03 for linen thread.  maybe 0.06/0.02 for silk. 

anyway i pulled platine apart so i had less weight to deal with then stuck the platine up on 3 CMS speaker footers (LS2.25).  i got it level.  i then put it back together, put my chalked silk double loop on and off we go.

so straight away the motor sounded quieter.  i do measurements  and i am getting 0.03/0.03.  which is very low.  frequency of interest has gone from 0.55/0.43 hz (which is around the frequency of the knot passing thru the spindle of motor) to 0.18 hz.  

so then i listen to a record and lo and behold!  a sea change.  not a minor "is it this, is it that" type feeling.  but a very big positive change.  i could hear a tonne of atmosphere and i could hear swelling bass and harmonic overtones.  it seemed like the noise floor had dropped quite dramatically.  extraordinary nuance and information but very musical.  

so much improvement that i have to say this is the way.  there is no "oh i like the platine footers and will try them again".  no.  for me, from now on, its rigid footers on platine and motor.  it is unarguably, to my ears, an order of magnitude better than anything i've heard before.  i listened to beth orton's debut record hit "she cries your name". it was mental.  i had never heard better in my house, on my system.  the clarity of detail is unarguable.  but more than that, the harmonic overtones, the improved "depth" to the presentation, the sheer scale and entertainment factor, i could not deny.

coming from the garrard 401 i had wanted a sound that had less bearing in it.  so more depth, more nuance, more atmosphere.  last night we got there.  "mission accomplished".

now i have established this baseline i will no doubt still try different threads again.  unwaxed linen thread is my next to try.  because frankly the double looped silk only just makes 33.3 speed and won't make 45 rpm i feel quite sure.  but if i have to listen to silk and only 33 rpm records for the rest of my days, i won't mind a bit.  

i no longer have any interest in a new motor.  it seems like the motor chatter pertained to the platine moving relative to the motor (something i couldn't see at all). it is much quieter now.

HAPPY DAYS!

 

Hi @mr_gray,  I may have missed it in your earlier posts, but when you said you are now “floating on air”, are you putting your Verdier on a pneumatic anti-vibration platform, such as the Vibraplane or similar? I am wondering whether the “lost of soul” comment are due to the lack of suspension when the springs are deactivated, therefore letting vibrations reaching the arm and cartridge!

"floating on air" refers to being no touch on the bearing.  so i have removed the ball bearing and i have withdrawn the spindle such that i am now truly using the platine as i believe it was intended to be used.  it might sound odd that it has taken me this much time to get this right.  i agree.  but in my defence my platine came with very weak magnets which i had to replace.  plus my platine uses the AS mod which means i have a platter on top of the standard platter.  all up my platter assembly weighs about 8 kg more than "standard".

i truly wish i could put the whole thing on an active platform though.  there was a seismion going for 6k USD locally but it's just too expensive relative to the table which was around that price.

i agree "lack of soul" is chatter at the arm.  i think such chatter could be induced by the platter wobbling as well as from what table rests on.  it is a sound i hear when i use linen thread, which due to the knot and the nature of that thread, is very noisy.  one can see how the knot sends the whole platter into a spasm each time it comes thru the motor spindle.

i agree rigid feet could work to transmit chatter to the table and arm.  the platine's feet do a good job of preventing motor chatter into the table.  much better than the rigid feet (this can be heard readily with stethoscope).

somehow last night it all worked amazingly.  i am hoping for a repeat tonight.

@Ledoux1238

I understand a lot of it is tweaks, but all these tweaks have made me realize that the previous owners of the table, which is still available, might have tried tweaking and made it worst and I would have no idea how to fix it. 

@Mr_Grey

Thanks for the reassurance, you made me realize that I was overthinking the whole thing. Until the last paragraph that is  :  

"i do plan to disassemble the platine, see if i can align magnets better...   all totally unnecessary but it's a hobby right :-)" 

Anxiety went right back up and from that smile you inserted at the end, you knew damn well what you were doing. Well played.

To be honest with you guys, the other reason I haven’t bought it and maybe the main one, is that it does not fit my rack, mine is not wide enough. Thanks for your time, you guys seem to be really enjoying this hobby, wishing you the best.

@mr_gray, thank you for the explanation! If you think the seismion is too expensive, I would highly recommend the Vibraplane or similar pneumatic anti-vibration platform, either the active (which required a high pressure air compressor) or the passive version (which only need a hand pump).