@ledoux1238 , thanks! So, basically it regenerates the power and control speed by changing the output frequency! Unlike the SOTA Eclipse, the LDA doesn't have the feedback function, so you have to adjust speed with some sort of probe. I wonder what the adjustment steps are, ie 0.1Hz or 0.01Hz etc.
One of the advantages of the Eclipse is the 3-phase controller, which I found very beneficial for AC synchronous motors. On the other hand, the LDR webpage seems to indicate it would fit the asynchronous motors of vintage idler drive turntables better! If you are getting either one, I would be very interested to know your findings!
Best,
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Interesting discussion on adding heavy mat and record weight on the SP10R! While I have not auditioned the the SP10R, I do have experience with the older SP10MK3. Personally, I find the SP10MK3 score hi on the "HIFI" criterion, but I start to develop listening fatigue about an hour into the listening session. Many audiophiles would attribute this to the rapid speed correction, so call hunting, of the SP10MK3.
I don't know whether the SP10R is in a similar situation, but can't help to wonder if the added weight actually smooth out the speed hunting by making it harder for the motor to adjust the speed rapidly!
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I have yet to audition the SP10R, so I don't know if they have solved, or lessen, the problem I have with the SP10MK3. However, since a lot of users are perfectly happy with the SP10R and SP10MK3, I suspect this problem may be user dependent, some of us are just more sensitive to it than the others. If you don't experience the fatigue, both of these tables could be a very good choice!
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While I don’t have much experience on AC vs DC motors, I agree with Dover that for AC motors, a 2-phase (or 3-phase, depends on the motor) controller is very beneficial!
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The MinusK does use springs, but probably not in the conventional manner.
According to their website: "Vertical-motion isolation is provided by a stiff spring that supports a weight load, combined with a negative-stiffness mechanism (NSM)."
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Hi Lewm,
I agree with your assessment on the JC Verdier. After I came out from my 4-5 years sabbatical from audio, the first turntable that I bought was a La Platine. I have defeated the suspension, using a tungsten carbide ball on the bearing, and put the whole system including the motor on a pneumatic optical table. The motor is only a couple of inches from the plinth.
Although it is only early days on my fine tuning, my initial impression is that while the La Platine it is not as detail / resolving as more expensive (a lot more expensive) turntables, it is very musical and enjoyable. I have no doubt more fine tuning will yield further improvements. I think it is a very good deal with it's second hand price.
@ledoux1238 , before getting into motor or cartridge upgrade, I would suggest you consider trying some industrial antivibration platform, like the MinusK as Lewm has suggested, or some pneumatic optical platform if you don't mind having a compressor / pump unit. Good luck on your journey with the La Platine, it is indeed a very good turntable!
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@ledoux1238 No, I have not try putting the motor on a separate platform, partly because it is not that practical in my setup, but mainly because I simply do not believe in it. I doubt that he remember this, but many years ago I had some email exchange with Thom of Galibier, where we talked about having the motor and plinth on separate platforms. I learned a lot about the drawback of such arrangement from him, and it all made sense to me. Even today, if you look at some of the top turntables with separate motors, such as the Kuzma XL and even the Walker, they all have their motors relatively close to the plinths. I think that is not a coincident.
About pneumatic platform, I have been using the floor standing model from TMC since nearly 20 years ago. I was thinking if it was good enough for Rockport, it probably was good enough for me. I have always been very satisfy with them!
While you can certainly test it yourself, I would strongly recommend against putting the motor on separate platform if you are using a pneumatic platform, and especially the MinusK. I have seen the MinusK working in my friend's system. It has very soft springs, so I am pretty sure the pull of the belt (if the motor is on separate platform) will affect its leveling. And yes, the MinusK doesn't like asymmetric load, so you may need to experiment with placing weight on different positions on the platform to achieve leveling. Also, it is so sensitive to the weight that if you use a record weight during setup, you will always need to use the record weight, or you may throw the platform out of level. It is because of all these inconvenient that kept me from using the MinusK, although, at least on paper, it performs even better than my TMC.
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Hi Lewm,
You can read about how the NSM works here, but can’t say I understand it completely:
Yes, the feeling push down on the MinusK is so different from normal springs, so smooth and well damped, almost feels like hydraulic!
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As Lewm has already mentioned, it is quite interesting that Verdier users, as a group, seem to be the only one who embraced the idea of using long belt / string and putting plinth and motor on separate platforms! Yes, I have seen some Micro Seiki users doing the same, but they are certainly in the minority. Even the insolation base developed by Micro Seiki for their 8000 MK2 placed the plinth and motor next to each other.
As mentioned, I have just started on fine tuning the La Platine. I started out using the Kuzma 4Point 14" with Dynavector XV1S, but I have just taken it out and going to put in a Schroeder CB with a VDH Colibri XCM for testing. Once I get a better handle on the La Platine, my plan is to make a large armboard, which can be placed across both arm columns, and install a Kuzma Airline. Will see how that goes!
To defeat the suspension, I simply placed some metal footers with height adjustment ability on the four corners, nothing fancy. Currently, I am just using some nylon threads, but will certainly test other options.
Best regards,
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@ledoux1238 , those arm column and armboard are nice! Actually, I have something similar made locally.
If you are using the stock armboard, have you measured the leveling of the platter against the armboard carefully? In my unit, the leveling between the two is off, i.e. if one is leveled, the other is off. I have to place 2 name cards as shims under the armboard to level it against the platter. If your unit have the same problem, you may need to consider some aftermarket armboards.
Best,
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The Terminator is a nice arm, especially considering the reasonable price. My friend, who was a founding member of Lenco Heaven, was a good friend of Vic, so I had a set of Terminator plus Salvation for a little while. As I remember, it sounded best with the lowest air pressure, which still enable the arm to operate normally; something like 1.3 or even 1.1 psi if I remember correctly. Of course, buffer air tanks were also a necessity!
I still have a custom made 16” version of the arm sitting in the box somewhere in my friend’s apartment, and I have never seen that arm in person! Must be around 10 years already. Crazy old days 😆
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@ledoux1238 , yes, my friend is David, aka Daiwok .
@phantom_av , yes, I am always skeptical about these audiophile brand anti-vibration devices! They seem to be no more than basic industrial devices with a better looking casing. I have looked at the Stacore, and it seem to be a passive pneumatic devices in a fancy slate case. The passive pneumatic device is nothing new. Is it better with slate? I am not sure. But if you think the slate makes a difference, you probably can have similar, or better, performance by putting a slate plate on something like a vibraplane, even better on an active vibraplane .
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@ledoux1238 , I have mounted the Schroeder on the armpod, but yet to align the cartridge. The brass arm column I am using is similar to the one you posted, but with 2 levels, the bottom level is 65mm tall and the 2nd level (you can call it a spacer) adds another 10mm. This is designed to give me more leeway when mounting the Airline, which requires a minimum clearance of 30mm in height between the armboard and platter surface.
The buffer system David and I were using for the Terminator was a 2 stage setup, the first stage was an Airtech tank, which was originally designed for the ET, at around 4-5 gallons in size I think, the the second stage was a smaller tank at around 1-1.5 gallon. That worked well, but I suppose a larger tank would be even better if there was no space restriction.
Bests,
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@ledoux1238 , the Callas kit is nice! I have looked carefully at the photos of the parts, and "I think" I know how it works. I would be interested to get a set if it was still available!
However, instead of the ability of easily adjusting the height of the spindle, I think the biggest improvement comes from the tighter tolerance bearing. For the spindle height, IF the theory is that the best adjustment is for the ball to just touches the platter, and bear as little weight as possible, then I may have, inadvertently, arrived at the best, or nearly the best, adjustment without the Callas kit. Now, if I only have a bare platter on (i.e. no mat, no LP), the platter floats so slightly above the ball, probably a fraction of a mm. I can push down on the platter with my fingers and feel it sink slightly. With the mat and LP on, the platter rest solidly on the ball with no play.
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@ledoux1238 , I think you have confused the Continuum with the Rockport. If you look at Fremer’s review on the Caliburn in Stereophile , he clearly stated that the Caliburn used "conventional" ball and thrust plate bearing, but with magnetic levitation, keeping only 6 lbs of pressure on the ball. The review also mentioned, Mark Doehmann, designer of the Calibure, believed without the contact point (the ball), the platter would wobble and vibrate to some degree no matter how carefully the platter was machined. No platter could be 100% perfectly balanced! However, Doehmann’s new turntables, the Helix One and Two, don’t seem to employ magnetic levitation!
Also, if you don’t use the ball on the Verdier, then with or without record weight on, or with different record weights, will certainly affect the platter height, therefore the VTA / SRA. That is not something I want to deal with!
I have not been experimenting with record clamps and weights. While I have the Goldmund Silver and Black, Sota, Teres on hand, I am just casually using the discontinued KL Audio weight on the Verdier.
Bests,
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Is there a webpage that I can learn more about this LDA controller?
Thanks!
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