Holy crap! Coulda sworn you were on the list but not yet. Oh well, give it time. Anyways, not being on the list yet allows me to say: That's an insult not an argument. Which is more response than it deserves.
16 ohm speakers: any amp sounds better with more resolution. speaker cables less critical.
First,
Thanks to anyone who responds with whatever answers/opinions/advice comes from this. I'm retired, covid bound, Donna is taking care of everything holiday related, too much time, always curious.
..................................
I happened across this in an old thread started by Ralph (atmasphere)
"Sixteen ohms, BTW is a very simple means for getting more resolution out of your system, as nearly every amplifier made sounds better on 16 ohms than it will on 4 or 8 ohms. Speaker cables become far less critical too."
My speakers are 16 ohms (Electrovoice horn tweeter, horn mid, 15" woofer, crossover, rheostats, from 1958).
Extremely efficient, I have more than enough power. Amp, now and in the past all had 16 ohm taps.
Of course I can hook them up to my Cayin's 8 ohm taps now and listen, but facts, opinions, advice, to learn is good.
...........................
Lots of Questions?
1. why/how do 16 ohm speakers make amps sound better, with more resolution?
2. why speaker cables less critical? perhaps this is why I/we don't hear cable differences in my system?
I'm using my homemade twisted pair of cat 5 now (8 individually insulated small diameter solid core).
3. to get exterior bias control: use 8 ohm tap for my 16 ohm speakers? (get alternate amp 4/8 no 16 tap,)
lose advantage(s)? 'sounds better'; 'more resolution'; 'speaker cables less critical'?
this says slightly more mids:
http://blog.hughes-and-kettner.com/ohm-cooking-101-understanding-amps-speakers-and-impedance/
I can fine tune my speakers via their two rheostats: 'presence' and 'brilliance', so not really an issue for me.
4. Importance of Bias Control
how important is Bias? (I don't care about heat, power output, or tube life, just as bias affects sound). Frankly, using vintage tube receiver Fisher 500C, 800C and Fisher Mono Blocks 80Z, I have never checked or adjusted bias. I just put the control in the center position when cleaning insides/controls.
I have always used 16 ohm taps of various vintage tube and SS amps and newer current tube Cayin A88T. (original version, the only one with 16 ohm taps). It's bias control is internal, versions with safer external bias do not have 16 ohm taps.
5. replace their two rheostats? ('presence' and 'brilliance': copper wire-wound on ceramic body, mid/neutral position).
I have them in neutral position now, l/r frequency response equal.
do I need to keep rheostats 16 ohms? use 8 ohm rheostat with 16 ohm drivers?
sales sheet says 16 ohm, but data sheet shows range 1.0 to 5k ohms.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/303/controls_rheostats-1228697.pdf
does that mean, the drivers will draw whatever they draw (varies thru frequency range anyway), doesn't matter as long as rheostat range starts 1.0 ohm, extends past say 100.0 ohms?
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/303/controls_rheostats-1228697.pdf
...........................................
thanks, Elliott
Thanks to anyone who responds with whatever answers/opinions/advice comes from this. I'm retired, covid bound, Donna is taking care of everything holiday related, too much time, always curious.
..................................
I happened across this in an old thread started by Ralph (atmasphere)
"Sixteen ohms, BTW is a very simple means for getting more resolution out of your system, as nearly every amplifier made sounds better on 16 ohms than it will on 4 or 8 ohms. Speaker cables become far less critical too."
My speakers are 16 ohms (Electrovoice horn tweeter, horn mid, 15" woofer, crossover, rheostats, from 1958).
Extremely efficient, I have more than enough power. Amp, now and in the past all had 16 ohm taps.
Of course I can hook them up to my Cayin's 8 ohm taps now and listen, but facts, opinions, advice, to learn is good.
...........................
Lots of Questions?
1. why/how do 16 ohm speakers make amps sound better, with more resolution?
2. why speaker cables less critical? perhaps this is why I/we don't hear cable differences in my system?
I'm using my homemade twisted pair of cat 5 now (8 individually insulated small diameter solid core).
3. to get exterior bias control: use 8 ohm tap for my 16 ohm speakers? (get alternate amp 4/8 no 16 tap,)
lose advantage(s)? 'sounds better'; 'more resolution'; 'speaker cables less critical'?
this says slightly more mids:
http://blog.hughes-and-kettner.com/ohm-cooking-101-understanding-amps-speakers-and-impedance/
I can fine tune my speakers via their two rheostats: 'presence' and 'brilliance', so not really an issue for me.
4. Importance of Bias Control
how important is Bias? (I don't care about heat, power output, or tube life, just as bias affects sound). Frankly, using vintage tube receiver Fisher 500C, 800C and Fisher Mono Blocks 80Z, I have never checked or adjusted bias. I just put the control in the center position when cleaning insides/controls.
I have always used 16 ohm taps of various vintage tube and SS amps and newer current tube Cayin A88T. (original version, the only one with 16 ohm taps). It's bias control is internal, versions with safer external bias do not have 16 ohm taps.
5. replace their two rheostats? ('presence' and 'brilliance': copper wire-wound on ceramic body, mid/neutral position).
I have them in neutral position now, l/r frequency response equal.
do I need to keep rheostats 16 ohms? use 8 ohm rheostat with 16 ohm drivers?
sales sheet says 16 ohm, but data sheet shows range 1.0 to 5k ohms.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/303/controls_rheostats-1228697.pdf
does that mean, the drivers will draw whatever they draw (varies thru frequency range anyway), doesn't matter as long as rheostat range starts 1.0 ohm, extends past say 100.0 ohms?
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/303/controls_rheostats-1228697.pdf
...........................................
thanks, Elliott
Showing 3 responses by millercarbon
And yet, the guy who designs some of the most fantastically successful speakers made anywhere in the world today says nevermind 16 ohms, even 8 ohms is obsolete. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAO9LPsups |
1. why/how do 16 ohm speakers make amps sound better, with more resolution? They don't. It does change the sound and in making it more lean and etchy it can seem to be more detailed. Its not. Because of the way they are wired its very easy for Eric Alexander to make his Tekton Moabs in either 8 ohm or 4 ohm. Everyone following the advice you mentioned told me to order 8 ohms. It will be so much better. Especially since I have a tube amp. They made all the same technical arguments you have undoubtedly heard. I talked with Eric and went with 4 ohms. Hard to imagine how these speakers could be any better. But if you want stories, here is the antidote to the 16 ohm story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAO9LPsups 2. why speaker cables less critical? perhaps this is why I/we don't hear cable differences in my system? We have no idea why you don't hear differences in your system. Could be the wires you are comparing are so similar the differences are so small its too hard to hear. The differences are there, guaranteed. My first experiment was with ordinary 14 gauge lamp cord, two runs shotgun vs one. Not much difference but it was there. Everything from that point on has been orders of magnitude greater and easier to hear. So its there, just waiting on you to find it. I'm using my homemade twisted pair of cat 5 now (8 individually insulated small diameter solid core).The good news is this is so far down the scale you have nowhere to go but up. Forget impedance. Forget construction. Focus on sound quality. |