The Emotiva Challenge


A few days ago I posted a review of the Emotiva amps after testing a XPA-3 and XPA-2 that my friend had recently bought. I was so impressed that I ordered a XPA-3 for my own home theater and then spent more time evaluating the amp against some other gear

Okay.....here's my continued review of the Emotiva XPA-3 amp......I call it a challenge, but that's a tad dramatic!

Associated gear for use and comparison, some of which is not mine......!

Def Tech BP7004 speakers
Paradigm Studio 20 version4 on Skyland 4 post stands
Rogue Metis preamp-stock tubes
Denon AVR series receiver (standing in as a processor for home theater)
Oppo CD player with upgraded output and a few other mods I can't remember
Sony 360 and Playstation III for Blu-ray playback
SVS PC 16-46 sub (the big water cooler!)
MJ Acoustics 150 MKII sub (10 inch sub that bests REL in the same range)

Gear I had on hand for comparison:

Odyssey Stratos red board version with upgraded caps....1700 dollar amp
Rotel 1090
Manley Stingray II....the latest version of this well respect design costing 3K, but thank god for the remote!

So now the XPA from Emotiva has been running for quite a while. Perhaps it's not fully broken in yet, but then neither is the Manley Stingray.

For Home Theater Use
The XPA-3 let it's power be felt 100% of the time. It produced insane volumes in my large theater room. Surprisingly it also created sensational bass that my other amps did not manage. I AM AT A LOSS AS TO WHY. All 3 front speakers have powered subs, so all other things being equal it would seem that the XPA is sending out bass content that the Rotel & Odyssey are not. In virtually every respect the XPA sounded every bit as good as the Rotel and Odyssey (which only drove two channels for the comparison). But the XPA was simply more fun for it's huge bass display. With the Paradigms driven full range this effect was also apparent. As a home theater amp the XPA seems faultless and if you have a dedicated theater a far more expensive Rotel or Wyred for Sound or Parasound is just going to leave you with less money for your music system.

For Music
Okay, this is where it gets a bit upsetting, since I had spent a lot on some SS amps previously! The Rogue Metis pre is a reasonably nice tube pre-amp. But it's not super high end. I think it's a reasonably priced unit and might be a "expected" pick for those seeking to get some music in two channel mode out of the Emotiva. The Rotel was darker. Much to my surprise it managed to sound brighter, but space around instruments or "air" was less present compared to the XPA. Imaging from both the XPA and Rotel was rather two dimensional. There was left to right coherency, but little depth. I could almost always tell where the speakers were in the room. But once again the XPA seemed to have bass content that was missing from the Rotel. I ended up adjusting the sub controls, but I still got a superior bass presentation from the XPA. Next up was the Odyssey and this was a clear step up in one important respect: Image depth. Now I could not as easily hear the "box effect" and the speakers were harder to locate. Next up was the expensive Manley Stingray II. This integrated amp has less than around 70-80 hours on it, so it's still breaking in. In 18 watt triode mode, with a 30 minute warm-up, the Stingray made the Def Techs and Paradigms vanish. Voices sounded "in the room" and David Bowie's Andy Warhol sounded more life than any of the solid state amps could manage. The Stingray seemed to even catch the room tone on various recordings and easily gave a sense of space around many instruments. In short...18 watts of triode stomped on the big amps big time. I also used the Denon as a pre and got mediocre results with the XPA, which now sounded somewhat dull. It's clear that a good pre is important if you plan to use the XPA for music. That leaves out processors on the whole. The Denon/Rotel combo was more musical in this case and this simply proves that you should only judge a component with YOUR gear in YOUR room in the final analysis.

Summary
The pre-amp and other associated gear will make big differences of course. But I've been listening to a lot of amps in recent months as I upgrade my theater and dedicated music system. I've passed on Wyred for Sound, Rotel, Parasound Halo (which I really like), Outlaw and a few others. I sold my Odyssey, but have a borrowed one which I may buy for another room.
For home theater the XPA is nothing less than amazingly good and I'm not basing that on price. I just spend a lot of cash on 18 watts, so I'm not basing my purchases on "value." If the XPA underperformed it would be sent back and I'd happily pay for a Bryston again. For music this becomes more complicated. I think the Odyssey is more musical than the other SS amps above and there is a great 3 channel version available. That may be the best value if you plan to use your theater setup for music a lot.
ALL of this gear sounds good and good matching can elevate any amp above another these days. High end technology is now commonly found in low cost gear and today's mid-fi is yesterday's high end. If you must consider cost per watt, then the Emotiva amps are the best I've ever heard. It's easily able to keep pace with gear costing 3 times more and may even be better than many for home theater applications.

I am one of "THOSE PEOPLE" who enjoys spending a silly amount of money at times on audio gear. Most human beings consider my purchase of Merlin TSM-XMr speakers extravagant. Some might call them a bargain, but that's a small group! Over the years I've come to realize that the high end is often more about price and individuality. We often express ourselves through researching and finally owning a product which we consider rarefied. Unfortunately in most cases the owners get gear that's not truly superior or they lack the know-how to extract what superior aspects may be present. It's a tricky hobby that is often a difficult balance between perception and performance, with the winds of ego ever threatening to tip the whole affair over. And with that in mind there are people who will dismiss fine efforts from Emotiva, and other companies like them, out of hand. I did the same thing when I first heard of Outlaw and later I smartened up and bought some of their gear. In some sort of bazaar way it seems that the Emotiva does not belong in the same room as the Manley tube amp. But pushing it's cost out of my head and focusing on it's performance for the task at hand I slowly realize that it is just as high end as the Manley. My suggestion to anyone interested in fine audio, either for music or home theater, is to audition amps like these whenever possible and with a wide variety of associated gear. I heard a Wyred for Sound amp sound dreary with a expensive Cary pre and sound lively and musical with a Parasound pre costing far less. Forget cost. Focus on system synergy and keep an open mind!

Bottom line: The XPA-3 is a winner and I plan to add their XPA-2 to my theater next!

You can few my theater room at this link....
http://ghostlight.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p347770642-4.jpg

Thanks for reading...

Rob
robbob
I admit I've never had access to a $50K amplifier to look under the hood but I have looked at my share of others to know it doesn't take an experienced designer to know when you see a printed wire board attached to an amplifiers heat sink thats so thin that its warped into shape, the design goal is obviously low cost. Non-labeled components are always suspicious to me.

As I said earlier I compared the XPA-2 to my equally priced and powered Hypex nCore mono blocks which bettered them handily throughout the bandwidth. The XPA's exaggerated and much less defined bass and congestion when pushed left me questioning the companies rated output. With less revealing speakers results may vary greatly and may be acceptable for some.

Is there a qualification to become an audiophile? If one spends ten cents more on anything that may sound better, then he/she is in the mob with the rest of us, period.

The point of forums and threads like this is to share experiences, not to hold back information one may be privy to and then criticize some poor chump who felt so strongly about an expensive product or simply got sold, is hardly comical just truly lame.

I stand by my experience and have no qualms about sharing my impressions, after all I paid for the inconvenience. The great majority of manufactures who provide inexpensive good preforming audio products are not so ashamed of their manufacturing as to decline discussing their process under the guise of, "we do not share such information with the general public or our customers for a multitude of reasons. Sorry."
Dayglow - I noticed you didn't mention whether you have ever heard or A/B'd an Emotiva product, which I pretty much knew you would avoid answering.

It's pointless to use logic and rational arguments on someone who is talking with ZERO experience in what they are saying and thinks measurements have no correlation to sound...YET price does.

Nevertheless, please call whatever company you are proud to say is on the chassis of your amplifier and ask them if they use measurements. Tell them you think measurements have no correlation to sound quality and listen closely for the giggling they will try to mute to avoid offending you.

Here's another question to ask...Are they using a circuit that is 100% invented by them or just tweaking one that was patented long ago and no longer protected.

It's funny that I've mentioned numerous examples of amps that I know sound better than the Emotiva. Thus, I've never implied that they make the best amps made. However, you claimed their are "many under $2k", but only given one example and it has to be "used".

Since you finally mentioned ONE example, I can now look at the parts and laugh even further. Is your best example a 20 year old amp made by Yamaha?...lol

It's a decently built amp, but would you SERIOUSLY advise someone to buy this amp with 20 year old parts over a brand new Emotiva at the same price...SERIOUSLY!?!

I know you don't like specs, but that amp isn't really passive preamp/direct drive friendly. Plus, I hope you know that the most important part of an amp is the transformer and the generally accepted advantage of toroids over iron cores like the one in the Yamaha.

(Caveat- There are some manufacturers who can make amps with iron core transformers sound just as good if not better than toroids, but I can guarantee that Yamaha wasn't choosing iron core transformers for that amp due to better performance.)

Oh...and if the stock, hard-wired power cord on the Yamaha is so bad that an after-market expensive one would make a huge difference, what does that say about the quality of the piece you are recommending? What were you implying about Emotiva again???

As an aside...If you want a really good story behind how important just one part can be like toroid transformers, go back 10 years or so ago and remember a company called Equitech? It was all the rage because they had an exclusive contract with Plitron who generally made the best toroid transformers. As a result, they made quite a splash with their balanced power conditioners performing and measuring better than almost anything out there. Almost everyone was using them at the shows. Then, Plitron stopped honoring their exclusive contract and others like BPT started using them to great success. In a balanced power conditioner, there really isn't any other "technology" other than the transformer...so the EXACT SAME PERFORMANCE was now available from other manufacturers at lower prices. Equitech had to outsource transformers from China and how much have you heard of them since?

An amplifier is a little more complicated than a balanced power conditioner, but the story above is meant to show that measurements and superior parts play a larger role in performance than the name on the chassis or price.

Long story short...If you would have offered up a name like Parasound as a good alternative to Emotiva for budget prices, then I would have easily agreed with you and said that would be a good alternative for better performance at slightly higher price point. However, my intuition and your subsequent posts proved that you were just spouting opinions on something you had little to no experience.

As for Dave72 - Instead of reading The Audio Critic, maybe you should read marketing books that explain the theory of "anchoring". That's exactly what 80% of audiophile manufacturers rely on to sell their products at outrageous prices.

You could also read Ethan Winer's page and watch his videos.

Maybe you have better ears and more credentials than he has in recording live performances and comparing it to recordings. If so, please reference your website and credentials so that we know you're not just the typical audiophile forum superhero with golden ears just waiting on a contract from Marvel.
I admit I've never had access to a $50K amplifier to look under the hood but I have looked at my share of others to know it doesn't take an experienced designer to know when you see a printed wire board attached to an amplifiers heat sink thats so thin that its warped into shape, the design goal is obviously low cost.

As I said earlier I compared the XAP-2 to my $1100. pr. Hypex nCore mono blocks which bettered them handily throughout the bandwidth. This comparison was very revealing of the XPA's slightly exaggerated and much less defined bass. As well as the XPA's congestion when pushed which left me questioning their companies rated output. With less revealing speakers results may vary greatly and may be acceptable for some.

When one sees component brands such as Antenka, Zhejiang Lema, Salecom, Buondi, and the seemingly high quality appearance of Dongguan City Kaihua switches, one shouldn't take note?

There is know qualification to being an audiophile. If one spends ten cents more on anything that may sound better, then he/she is in the mob with the rest of us, period.

Stereophile provides what they title, "Measured performance," and has mentioned countless times that a products measured performance may not be indicative of the products actual sonic performance. In some cases the reviewers impressions can correlate with some aspect of its measured performance. Many find this simple and straight forward and understand the relationship with their advertisers. Regardless, most appreciate the effort taken.

The point of forums and threads like this is to share experiences, not to hold back information one may be privy to and then criticize some poor chump who felt so strongly about an expensive product or simply got sold, is hardly comical just truly lame.

I stand by my experience and have no qualms about sharing my impressions, after all I paid for the inconvenience. The great majority of manufactures who provide inexpensive good preforming audio products are not so ashamed of their manufacturing as to decline discussing their process under the guise of, "we do not share such information with the general public or our customers for a multitude of reasons. Sorry."

The company in question is the only one I've had experience with that finds such complete secrecy regarding their manufacturing a prudent action and I have to wonder why.

If one has no concerns and feels their practice is acceptable then drill baby drill, it's a free country.
I've done that route of starting out with Emotiva.owned CD player they've made, several of their amplifiers, etc.
After curiosity and affordability kicked in, I've gone PS Audio on the front end and now looking for an amp to complete my lust.

The thing is, without an affordable starting point , I wouldn't be where I am now.

Well, different strokes for different folks.......
I admit I've never had access to a $50K amplifier to look under the hood but I have looked at my share of others to know it doesn't take an experienced designer to know when you see a printed wire board attached to an amplifiers heat sink thats so thin that its warped into shape, its design goal is obviously low cost.

As I said earlier I compared the XAP-2 to my $1100. pr. Hypex nCore mono blocks which bettered them handily throughout the bandwidth. This comparison was very revealing of the XPA's slightly exaggerated and much less defined bass. As well as the XPA's congestion when pushed which left me questioning their companies rated output. With less revealing speakers results may vary greatly and may be acceptable for some.

When one sees component brands such as Antenka, Zhejiang Lema, Salecom, Buondi, and the seemingly high quality appearance of Dongguan City Kaihua switches, one shouldn't take note?

There is know qualification to being an audiophile. If one spends ten cents more on anything that may sound better, then he/she is in the mob with the rest of us, period.

Stereophile provides what they title, "Measured performance," and has mentioned countless times that a products measured performance may not be indicative of the products actual sonic performance. In some cases the reviewers impressions can correlate with some aspect of its measured performance. Many find this simple and straight forward and understand the relationship with their advertisers. Regardless, most appreciate the effort taken.

The point of forums and threads like this is to share experiences, not to hold back information one may be privy to and then criticize some poor chump who felt so strongly about an expensive product or simply got sold, is hardly comical just truly lame.

I stand by my experience and have no qualms about sharing my impressions, after all I paid for the inconvenience. The great majority of manufactures who provide inexpensive good preforming audio products are not so ashamed of their manufacturing as to decline discussing their process under the guise of, "we do not share such information with the general public or our customers for a multitude of reasons. Sorry."

The company in question is the only one I've had experience with that finds such complete secrecy regarding their manufacturing a prudent action and I have to wonder why.

If one has no concerns and feels their practice is acceptable then drill baby drill, it's a free country.