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More turntable set up problems

I have an older Teres Audio turntable, purchased in 2005. It is a basically a model 160 with some upgrades, such as a birch plywood platter, a Teres VTA adapter and a hardwood reflex clamp. The tonearm is a Moerch DP-6 Precision red dot with a 12"armtube, and the cartridge is a Zyx R100-02H. I had everything set up in 2005 and everything was still working fine when I stopped listening to it a few years ago. Just this month I decided it was time to start listening to my two channel system again - I really do regret having neglected it for so long, but you can't change the past!

The turntable is level, the VTA appears to be correct, I have aligned the cartridge with the use of a Turntable Basics protractor( the only tool I have for this) and the tracking force is set within the range suggested by Zyx. With the rather crude measuring devices I have (rulers/straight edges) the overhang seems about right - it is supposed to be 13.3 mm, but I have nothing that will measure .3 of a millimeter. Anyway, I don't know how accurate my eyes are but I think I have things set up as close to where they should be given my tool and eyesight limitations. But.....

The sound coming out of my speakers is awful.....lots and lots of distortion, sounds like a transistor radio turned all the way up, if you know what I mean (if you are old enough to have been around transistor radios, lol,) hissy and garbled, really rough.

I have tried adjusting the anti-skating on the tonearm. The Moerch DP-6 has a lever for this, not a wheel, so I can't actually dial it in, but moving the lever made no discernable difference, the system still sounded like you-know-what. I also played with the VTA, just in case, but again, this made no difference.

I am probably going to start all over again and recheck every alignment, etc., but if anyone can give me some tips as to what area I should definitely focus upon - azimuth perhaps? - given the distortion problem my system is experiencing, I would much appreciate it.

By the way, I have a DAC and CD-player in my 2-channel system as well; CD's sound wonderful, so that SHOULD eliminate the possibilities that the DAC or tube power amp are causing the problems. Of course, there is a tube phono-stage/step up in the mix as well, but I really don't think that is the source of the problem - I really think I have done something wrong with the cartridge alignment....

Holly
oakiris
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almarg
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The sound coming out of my speakers is awful.....lots and lots of distortion, sounds like a transistor radio turned all the way up, if you know what I mean (if you are old enough to have been around transistor radios, lol,) hissy and garbled, really rough....

There is a tube phono-stage/step up in the mix as well, but I really don't think that is the source of the problem - I really think I have done something wrong with the cartridge alignment....
After reading everything that has been said (and you've been fortunate to receive inputs in this thread from a lot of very knowledgeable folks, including Mofi and his kindly offer), I definitely would not rule out the phono stage at this point. In fact, if you have confidence that the tracking force adjustment was done correctly (Doug was correct, of course, in mentioning inadequate VTF as a possibility to suspect), and if upon close inspection the orientation of the cantilever doesn't look bizarre in any way while a record is being played, a phono stage problem would be at or near the top of my list of suspects.

Hopefully you can try the other phono stage you mentioned having. If that phono stage turns out to be unsuitable, though, or if the results are inconclusive for whatever reason, one thing to try would be to simply remove and reinsert the tubes a couple of times. It's conceivable that after a number of years of non-use enough corrosion might have developed on a tube pin or socket contact to cause the problem, which would probably be scraped away by doing that.

Also, if the phono stage contains multiple tubes of the same type, try swapping their locations and seeing what happens. If the symptoms change significantly, it would cast suspicion on one of those tubes.

Finally, let us know the make and model of the phono stage, which might stimulate some further thoughts.

Regards,
-- Al
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topoxforddoc
353 posts
 
Holly
The noise you describe like a transistor radio sounds like Mistracking by the cartridge.
Does this sound distorted through both channels or just one? If it is just one, (or if one is worse) then swap the tubes round in your phono stage. If it is your phono stage, the most likely thing to fail is a tube. However, most phono tubes last awful long time.
Do you have any other cartridge, which you can try? Even a cheap $30 cartridge is fine.
The most common reason for Mistracking is inadequate VTF. Did you set up the tracking force with a proper stylus pressure gauge (e.g. Shure all digital scales)? The stylus pressure force markings on tone arms can be notoriously inaccurate. If you have a problem with this, then one would normally set the tone arm to the maximum recommended tracking force 1st. If needs be, set the bias to 0 to start with; inadequate or incorrect bias rarely causes the gross distortion which you describe, unless it causes inordinate friction in horizontal plane.
Sometimes this sort of problem can be caused by dried “rubbers" in the suspension or gunge in the generator assembly. You can find it that with inadequately cleaned records or incorrectly applied stylus cleaning fluids, that dust and fluff can creep up and go up the suspension and coils.
The turntable basics protractor will not be far off In terms of geometry. Unless you are grossly out, then it is unlikely that this would be the cause of your problems.
Good luck and Happy Christmas!

Charlie
oakiris OP
206 posts
 
Thank you, everyone, for your responses. :-)

The phono stage is a Wright Sound Company WPP200C with the Wright Sound Company phono transformer/step up, model WPM100. Both the power supply and the pre-amp have tubes; Mofimadness indicated he would be able to check the tubes to make sure they are all OK. I am hoping that it is providing the correct loading for the cartridge - I know it used to work fine in my set up. Perhaps this is another thing that Mofi can check. I will have my other phono stage ready to go if it turns out that the Wright Sound phono stage is at fault.

I am going to wait for Mofimadness to come down here before I "play" with my vinyl system anymore - I don't want to make things worse and I am hoping he will quickly see/hear what is wrong. Unfortunately, I do not have any other stylus/cartridge to try so, as I have said before, I am really, really hoping that the cartridge is not at fault.

Chris responded to my emails - YAY! He was out of town for a couple of weeks which is why he did not respond previously. He said there was no need to replace the turntable bearing oil and that he does indeed still recommend the use of ATF in his turntables, as you confirmed, Doug. He has indeed cut back on his business, now only sells the motor and tonearm that are offered on his website, but he is still deeply involved in the world of good audio.

I did use a gauge to set the tracking force on the tonearm. There are no markings on the tonearm for it, you just move weights at the end of the tone arm to make adjustments. ZYX recommends a tracking force of 2 grams. I have it set at about 2.03 or so. The gauge I have is a no-name gauge made in China. I checked the accuracy of the gauge with a 5 gram weight; it read 5.002 so I think it is reasonably accurate; we'll see what Mofimadness comes up with.

I remain hopeful that it is something simple that I have overlooked or done incorrectly. I will let everyone know what happens!

Holly
oakiris OP
206 posts
 
Well, it has been a while. Mofimadness came down this weekend and did some trouble shooting to see what the cause of the poor sound was. He said from the beginning that the only way a mistake in set up could cause the sound we were hearing was if I had installed the cartridge sideways. lol He thought it was probably a bad tube, but....

Well, the problem was the stylus. At first he thought the tip was gone and then he realized it was upside down (almost like installing the cartridge sideways I suppose!) Somehow I had managed to mishandle the cartridge and the cantilever twisted, or, possibly, the suspension had dried out while the system sat idle for years, allowing the cantilever to twist... Dunno, but it is trashed!

I had looked at the stylus and thought it looked odd but figured I either didn't know what I was looking for or my loupe just wasn't good enough. Sigh. Now I know what to look for!

The good news is that the phono stage is fine and all of the tubes tested near new, and it is likely that, once the cartridge is replaced, I won't have any problems with set up.

My tonearm is a Moerch DP-6 with the blue dot precision 12" arm tube. This is an extra heavy arm tube and requires a low compliance cartridge like the ZYX. The tonearm thus limits the cartridge choices.

At some point I am hoping to be able to get the ZYX repaired, but, due to a major lack of money, and the dearth of low compliance cartridges in the price range I can afford, I will be buying a Denon DL-103 cartridge to replace the ZYX R100H. I have a feeling I will be happy with this!

Thanks again to everyone that has offered me help here - and you were basically right from the get-go, Acresverde - the stylus was broken!

Holly
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lak
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I'm glad you finally got the mystery solved :-)
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