Are Thiel 2.3 much better than the 2 2's?

I have owned them both and both can sound good with the right components. I tried numberous amps Pass, Krell, Aragon, BAT, VAC with MIT cables but the 2.3s still had a bright edge to them. The BAT with a BAT tube preamp with MIT cables sounded the best. But in the end I could not live with the brightness. The 2.2s sounded more neutral but I would give a slight edge to the 2.3s. I have not heard the 2.3s with the new drivers which I have heard tames the high end. I moved to Audio Physic Virgos which sound great and can be found for about the same price as a used pair of 2.3s. Be sure you like the Thiel sound before you invest in any of their models

I sure do agree with Gjrad. I tried and tried to like the 2.3's - but the brightness was impossible. Put on a VERY well recorded cd and they are wonderful. But most cd's are not wonderfully recorded and the sound was so bright it almost became harsh after extended listening. I replaced them with Proac Response 2.5 and was thrilled the first listen and they have only gotten better. I am once again just enjoying the great music---no matter what cd I put on. I should have made the change well before investing in cables, interconnects, positioning, etc. that never seemed to work. It really is about the music---isn't it?

You should consider 3.6's, they are a big step up from the 2.2's. Mine aren't bright at all, I'm using cj pre and classe amp with silver ic's and kimber speaker cable. I have not heard the 2.3's so I can't offer a comparison. You can get a used pair of 3.6's for 2k or less - Thiel still makes them. Buy em and the quality of your source components will never out grow em... just an opinion...

My Thiel resume is a lengthy one, as follows :)

1)Auditioned the 2 2s at a dealer (w/ BAT electronics, MIT cabling, Naim CDP, jazz music)
2)Owned the 1.5s for a year
3)Traded up to the 2.3s and have been using them for the last two years.

Wish I had a clear favorite among them, but I don't. Whenever I see someone selling the 2 2s for 1K - 1.5 K on the used market, however, I regret not having an extra room in my house for a pair. They are that good. In terms of value for the money, used 2 2s represent (to my mind) one of the best deals on the market.

I have the 2.3s now and like them for their excellent precision and the somewhat greater "presence" they offer over the 1.5s I owned previously, if not much of a boost in the bass dept.

I don't think the 2.3s give you a tremendous improvement over the 2 2s.... maybe a bit more detail, transparency, and bass tightness.

But here's the deal with Thiel: They are very accurate loudspeakers. They will "notice" when you change speaker cables, interconnects, move them too close to a wall, etc.
That applies to any of the Thiel models I've heard.

Use a quality source component (Cal Audio, for example) and ample watts to drive their 3-4 ohm load.

If I were choosing between the 2 2s and the 2.3s and I doubted the quality of my source or amplification, I'd opt for the 2 2s, which seemed to be a bit more forgiving.

To give you some context for my comments: For the 2.3s, I use a McCormack .5 Deluxe (Revision A) with Shunyata power cord; this results in a nice refined sound with excellent extension (not bright). The McCormack .5 was plenty of muscle for the 1.5s, but maybe just enough for the 2.3s at normal listening volumes. I suspect that the 2.3s really crave something on the order of 250 watts into 3-4 ohms, so I might be looking at a larger stereo McCormack (or monoblocked .5s) at some point.

Other Thiel owners report good results with Classe and Plinius, but I haven't heard those combinations myself.

Bottom line: If a friend asked me to recommend the best speakers for 1K, I'd tell him or her to try to find a used pair of Thiel 2 2s in excellent condition.

Some other speakers in the price range to consider: Revel M30s, Aerial Acoustic 6s, and B&W N 804s.

Hope that helps...