Why SACD,DVD-A are already DEAD


I think it's time to really look at this issue as it stands today,in a clear rational way that takes into account the varied market forces which are the true determinates for any new formats sucess or failure.
SACD IS ALREADY DEAD PERIOD!
Why you ask?Well for the following reasons:
1.It's been about 2-3 years since the introduction of SACD and look at position it's in, in terms of SOFTWARE AVAILIBILITY and MASS MARKET AWARENESS.
Take the pathetic lack of titles,not only that, but look at the artists that are chosen as SACD releases,Yo Yo Ma,Kind of Blue,(for the upteenth time)Muddy Waters etc,etc.This is no reflection on the artists but only on their limted MASS MARKET APPEAL.Who was the marketing genius who decided to re-issue this material to captivate and generate a MASS INTEREST to this new format.You need a MASS MARKET BASE for any medium to succeed.
2.As has been stated before in other forums(stereophile for one) why would the average person shell out $25 HARD EARNED DOLLARS for one of these titles?Why?What are the advantages to the average listerner.it COSTS more,it's an artist in a speciality genre comparatively speaking(jazz,blues,classical vs. pop,rock,techno)it offers no physical advantage in terms of storage,packaging,and not only that it requires a NEW player!
If you wanted to consciously destroy this new format you could'nt have done a better job than Sony has already done.
3.Given the current state of the music industry ,their major concern right now is to halt the proliferation of the MP3.What major label is going to go out and spends tons of $ on P&A(publicity,advertising)and also re-tooling their cd manufacturing plants to output SACD'S as efficently as CD'S?Right now their is NO MASS MARKET AWARENESS of SACD,it's a fact ,we live in the hermetically sealed world of the audiophile culture.Most people don't even know about HDCD,GOLD CD'S,MOBILE FIDELITY DISC'S!
Look at the history of the 8 track tape,dat,mini disc,beta and you will see that SACD is right on track for a quick burial.
3.In order to suceed you need a medium that offers a clear cut advantage over the existing technology.Other than some sonic advantages(even that's not a slam dunk as many would suppose)What does the average person get besides A HIGHER PRICED CD?
5.For those of you who have purchased these players
thinking that if the SACD revolution doesn't occur then at least I have a player that does cd's better than most players,well you're probably right in that it will out perform an AVERAGE player.But think about it ,Sony is making a player to maximize their new format NOT the CD.There will be some compromise on the cd playback chain, As the price of the SACD player drops so will the manufacturers concern with producing great sounding cd playback.Parts,build quailty will most definetly suffer.
DVD-A IS ALREADY DEAD PERIOD!
Why you ask?Well for the following reasons:
1.Again it's basically MARKET AWARENESS,SOFTWARE AVAILIBILTY AND THE COST OF THE DVD.
2.Why would the AVERAGE person buy a dvd-a disc for $25 and ignore theCHEAPER CD VERSION!.Well if that person owns a terrific sounding surround set-up then sure that person will most probably buy one,but that person doesn't represent the mass market.Sure DVD video has had tremendous growth but it's the video (movies)that'sdriving the market not the ability to play music.My theory is that dvd -a won't take off for basically the same reasons that SACD won't.MASS MARKET AWARENESS,COST OF DISC,COST OF CREATING A SURROUND SETUP FOR MUSIC,COST OF GETTING A DVD-A PLAYER.Since dvd is already in place as an excellent video playback medium,I think the cost of the disc will be a major hurdle for the average person.Watermarking will be the hump for the audiophile,besides the fact that the proper engineeering of these surround disc's will be crucial to audiophile acceptance of this format.Idon't think either of these issues will be resolved in the near future,or even at all.
WHAT SHOULD YOU DO NOW?
1.The current technology for cd players and cd engineering has progressed significantly in the past 3 years.My advise is to buy a good high end cd player right now!There are plenty to chose from ,be prepared to spend $3-$6 grand,but also be prepared to hear your cd's sound GREAT not good but really ,really GREAT!
Let's face it life is short ,the players are out there, start listening and buy one(no I'm not a manufacturer or salesperson)and start enjoying the hundreds or thousands of cd's you already own.
To all those vinylphiles,I think you face similiar problems.limted software,mass market REJECTION.and old technology which needs a significant $ expenditure for great sound,not to mention the care and maintance required to keep these puppies sounding tick and pop free. I think of vinylphiles as one would think of vintage car hobbists,it's cool if you don't mind the fuss(I doI think the old maxim that lp's sound better than cd's is becoming meaningless.good lp on good system =good sound. good cd on good system= good sound.Ironically I think vinyl will prevail over sacd and dvd-a,it's a small club but it has a history behind it that will guarantee it's longevity.
So IMO cd's and vinyl for quite some time ,both require some cash outlay for a really good playback but it's the NOW and that NOW will be around for at least the next 10 years.
joeavid
While i can't say that i've listened to a lot of SACD, much of it has been very dissapointing. Then again, i've also heard it sound pretty solid, so a lot of it would boil down to individual recordings and / or system synergy.

Out of curiosity, has anyone else noticed fatigue when listening to SACD's at all ? On two different occasions and two different systems i've had this experience. I do know that we were using discs from one specific "hi-end" recording company at both times, so maybe it is a problem with something that they are doing. Sean
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In the digital age, new formats are born to die. The hardware and software (music) industries are working at cross-purposes. Movies now drive the hardware, ownership protection the software. The average music consumer just wants affordability, portability, and easy access. DVD will stick for a while because it is the CD to VHS's LP. DSD will persist as an archival recording and remastering standard because it is flexible in that capacity. DVD-A and SACD will flail in the wind and nobody will notice or care, except for hopeful audiophiles, about whom nobody notices or cares (nor should they). CD's and MP3's will continue until the content providers eventually leave behind the hardware/disk paradigm altogether. Will any of this matter to me in an age in which the dominant popular musicvideocelebrityindustryproductadvertisementmachine is dead as an art form? (I gaze fondly toward several nice-sized stacks of recently liberated-by-me obscure old scratchy mono 45's and frankly don't give a damn....)
"...Sound almost as good as SACD...".Stupid afirmation.SACD is not the reference as all digital should be compared.there are true Reference CD Players(Accuphase,Audio Aero Capitole,Linn...),vastly superior to any SACD!!
no one has mentioned the trouble with recording multiple channel yet

I have heard some of these recordings that sound like a 1970s quad sound engineer got a hold of them

I guy is playing sax and I hear a cymbol, clearly cut through the music...behind me

Someone needs to tell them we are trying to recreate a live experience not just an interesting one

cd
JB7272 just wait until the next issue when Telig completely reverses his position or at the very least modifies it to some degree as he always does. He is of absolutley no use to consumers. Between selling scam trips to where ever he's interested in travelling to, advising you to rub some miracle liquid on your CD's that may actualy deterioate them or to not having any usable measurements appear for months after the review (and after changing his mind), telling about what Scotch he drank and with whom to what a nice piece of salmon he ate the other night I have no respect for his opinion. I believe his popularity arose from his "audio cheapskate" days when many new audiophiles wanted to join in but not make the financial commitment. In all fairness he always admitted to his own neurosis and he is one of the best writters (not reviewers)in the biz. Upsampling has some promise but a better original format with at least the same selection availability, compatabilty, similar price point, and with out denial of an upgrade path is long over due.