Calling all analog experts

I think statements like "it beats the holy crap out of anything in its price range" are more than a bit of exageration. I have heard the Teres, in fact Doug was generous enough to allow me to listen to his, which, while it cetainly had some margin of performance over my Michell Gyro SE and Shelter 501 did not "beat the crap out of it" whatever that is supposed to mean. I think the base was the biggest difference that I noticed. It was more more defined with the Teres with plucked base strings being more precisely articulated in the pieces we listed to. Of course, Doug also has the excellent B&W Nautilis 803's compared to my Matrix 804's which will have something to do with good base. One the other hand, his system cost twice mine which does not mean mine will only give half the quality of sound. In my experience the marginal return in sound quality for each additional dollar invested is 10 to 15% at this level. So double the price and you may get 10 to 15% better sound. The Teres vs. my system seemed to fit this to my listening. Of course, this improvement can be very important to you compared to its cost - that is all a matter of personal taste and priorities.
The Teres, like all the TT's mentioned above is well worth a listen but it would perhaps be more usefull to those evaluating if more precise and accurate terms were used to describe the TT differences.

Responses like these are why I love Audiogon. Objective opinions from the well-informed are rare. Jyprez: What is the cost differential between your rig and Doug's? Doug I live near the Tappan Zee Bridge and CT. is not that far ,depending on what town that is. I may very well take you up on your generous offer when time allows. My system uses the Revel Studios so I think a hi end analog rig would reap big dividends. In percentage terms I'm sure most of these tables would be a 60-80% improvement over the MMF5 I'm currently using. TWL , my phonostage is the phonomenon. I'm guessing this wouldn't do for one of the higher end tables we're speaking of. What would a rig like this cartridge ,arm, phonostage ,set-up cost? Thanks to all of you for your input.

the table mmf is fine for analogue play back, however it cannot deliver detail, bass and attack because like a subcompact car straight from the factory it is limited as compared to a say porsche boxster...a boxster is a nice vehicle but still lacking compared to many other cars on the road but certainly delivers greater satisfaction than what 95% of the driving public are accustomed to.

a higher end table given where you are coming from will certainly reap tremendous dividends like heaps more micro detail, extended bass, quieter bachground and greater dynamics to name but a few improvements

i have owned many tt's including japan models (subcompact)many rega III's (honda accord) with various factory arms they are nice like your mmf, but thats it. oracle delphi's (mazda rx7 twin turbo) offered greatly improved bass and high frequency extension, good value performance. vpi aries (acura 4 door)very quiet but like a rega somewhat limited due to lack of a active suspension. tnt hr (911)where i currently reside is easily a noticably improvement in the realm of delivering greater sonic information

is there better, likely. am i going there, likely not...at least until i hear and appreciate the differences

then you need to add a cartridge! good luck

Well, this discussion beats the crap out of everything!

Jsonic,
I'm in Middletown, a bit of a hike from the TZB. Still it's always fun to meet other audio-phools so the invitation stands. Sundays are generally my only free day, though not all of them. Let me know if it makes sense for you to travel this far. We'll have Jyprez stand by to moderate!

Bob,
It's certainly difficult to compare components in different systems. We have lots of brands in common (Shelter, OL, c-j, B&W) but not a single model except our tonearms, almost. If you heard better bass I'd suspect multiple causes:
N803 vs. M804
240wpc SS vs. 60wpc tube (I bet yours sounds sweeter)
Shelter 901 vs. 501
HIFI Modded OL Silver MkI vs. unmodded OL Silver MkII
two cats vs. no cats
and maybe this brick of a TT

Since your visit I improved my cartridge mounting and alignment based on your observations (thank you). I also lowered VTA a touch. Mids and HF's have more 3-D palpability and clarity than before. We didn't listen to any female vocals, but now they're to die for.

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Let's try a theoretical TT shootout. Yesterday on AA there was a post about a new VPI, the Scoutmaster. Picture a Scout with a double thick plinth, taller platter and upgraded AC motor. Without arm it would cost around $1500-1600, similar to a Teres 135. Let's compare feature-for-feature:

Bearing
Teres is more massive, tighter toleranced (12+ hour seat time vs. 2) and viscous-damped

Platter
Teres is 57% taller/more massive

Plinth
Teres is taller/more massive but VPI has a steel layer, call it a draw

Belt
Teres mylar is more speed stable than VPI rubber

Motor
Teres DC is quieter and more speed stable than VPI's AC

Controller
Teres monitors platter speed and self-adjusts; VPI, umm, you fiddle the belt up or down on the pulley!

Armboard
Teres will accommodate virtually any arm, the armboard is easily replaced or swapped; VPI must re-drill and/or replace the plinth to change arms, forget swapping.

Plinth & platter upgrades
Teres offers upgrades with trade-ins for your old parts. VPI?

Power supply
Teres offers a fully isolated, self-recharging battery power option for $110. VPI offers just an AC power conditioner that costs many hundreds more.

Conclusion
At this price point the Teres 135 clearly "beats the crap" out of one major competitor. Other $1,500 tables might come closer of course, but I don't know any that would match it. Twl's statement was a bit enthusiastic, but not totally unrealistic.

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I like everything Sayas said except his implication that the oft-noted limits of the Aries are due to its lack of an active suspension. That's actually its best feature! I'd guess its problems are due to:
- too much acrylic (excessive warmth/rolled off HF's)
- a lousy motor (very well known now)
- an unstable tonearm (cartridge can't do its job)
Unless you can afford a Walker or Rockport, I believe a properly implemented non-suspended TT will retrieve low level information best. IMHO of course! :)

There is no question that the Teres is a fine table deserving of consideration in any hgh end system but of course it all comes down to price for performance. I paid $1000 for my 6 month old Michell Gyro. Gyro's can be readily had for $1200 or so here on A'gon. I believe the Teres model 365 lists for $3750 (almost never available discounted since there are so few) not to mention several hundred more for the 901 vs 501 cartridge. So the question comes down to not whether it performs better (as certainly it should) but just how much better performance one should get for about 2500 more and whether that performance is there or not.
Perhaps I could bring my Gyro over to your house and we can A/B them with some other impartial judges and let others on the forum know what they think? (Doug and I actually live within a few miles of each other in Central CT)