Why does Computers - Amp - Speakers sound better?

09-08-12: Toxicwaterfront
It's a lot clearer and I can hear more things. With vinyl, it's like the music is masked behind a veil, and with digital, the veil's been lifted. Don't know how else to describe it.

My NAD doesn't have a phono input. For my analog system, I'm using the built in phono on my Denon. I'm starting to think it's either that or my cartridge.

I second your suspicion and ACMan's comment that the quality of the built-in phono stage is likely to be a major contributor to the problem.

Also, re item 2(g) in my earlier post, many Shure cartridges (what model do you have?) require load capacitances in the vicinity of 450 pf, which is far higher than the recommended load capacitance for many or most other moving magnet cartridges, and is therefore likely to be much higher than the non-adjustable load capacitance that is actually provided by the turntable's built-in phono stage. That would probably result in a large frequency response suckout somewhere in the treble region, which would contribute to a lack of clarity and detailing (such as you appear to be describing). Using a properly chosen external phono stage should allow you to achieve a proper match, in conjunction with the added capacitance of the interconnect cable.

Finally, I repeat my earlier question about whether or not the geometric and mechanical setup of the cartridge has been done correctly. Any or all of the adjustments I mentioned, if sufficiently misadjusted, could turn a potentially satisfactory turntable/tonearm/cartridge combination into an unsatisfactory one.

And one specific issue I see is that the manual for the Dp-300F, which I suspect is the same or similar to the model that you have, indicates on page 3 (pdf page 6) to set the anti-skating knob to the same value as the tracking force, which I had cautioned against doing in my earlier post. Try 60% of that value, and fine tune from there by ear, and also by checking that the stylus/cantilever assembly on the cartridge does not deflect significantly to the left or the right (as viewed from the front of the cartridge) when the stylus is in the groove of a QUIET passage on a ROTATING record, compared to its position when it is lifted off of the record. I suspect that if you perform that visual check now, when viewing the cartridge head-on (from the front) you will see the cantilever deflect significantly to one side when it is lowered into the groove of a rotating record.

Regards,
-- Al

The description of a veil being lifted sounds a little bit like it could be a VTA too low issue, but it equally could also be the cartridge or the phono pre. Is the sound muddy and lacking in resolution in the highs?

Part of the effect is the improvement achieved with near field listening, which has certain advantages - focus of the speaker (and short distance to the ear) and a directivity of sound that eliminates several 'room' and 'extraneous noise' issues. Some car audio 'sounds' subjectively great because of the enclosed nature (within the car) of the speakers and the more direct interface with your ears. I've even noticed a somewhat similar positive effect with some ceiling speakers - in quiet coffee houses for example. Some of it too is that our 'listening expectations' are low, and it is a pleasant surprise when clear (low noise computer/internet radio)sound is produced in a public environment; the WAY we listen is different than the way we listen to a dedicated stereo. It is very easy to pursue a 'perfect' sound, actually achieve it (or get pretty darn close), only to find that it's not as enjoyable because so much time/money/expectation is involved to hear that perfect performance. Then its time to 'downsize' or 'simplify'. And then we get to start all over again. :-D

In any particular case, either turntable or digital might sound better. It all depends on how well each is set up to meet the needs of the listener.

In general, it is harder (and probably more costly in general these days) to achieve a quality turntable system than CD/digital. There are a lot more variables to consider and more technical know how involved to get a turntable system set up and tuned properly in general than CD/digital.

I'm guessing these days $2000 or so is probably the minimum amount one might expect to have to invest in a good quality vinyl rig (table, cart and phono pre-amp combined) to even have a chance out of the gate of matching or exceeding even a decent digital setup that might be done for less than half the cost perhaps. I'm sure others have experiences here that might help refine these estimates.

You have to start with the cartridge. All the rest is supplemental to allow the cartridge to work optimally. My experience is the Denon DL103R cartridge is a good place to start to have a chance for minimal cost but care must be taken to match it to a good quality table with medium to high mass tonearm and a decent phono stage that can work well with a low output MC cart like the DL103R.

FWIW, I use the DL103R, a vintage Linn Axis table, a Electrocompaniet step up phono pre-amp, and an ARC sp11 pre-amp with phono stage. Substitute a decent outboard phono pre-amp for the ARC pre-amp with integrated phono stage for use with a basic pre-amp minus phono stage and the cost probably comes in just under $2000 used. I can assure that the results are top notch for very reasonable cost assuming all gear is in good working order and set up correctly.

regarding cost of the digital front end, I have about $900 in mine, *not including the laptop.* I still plan to buy an upgraded USB/SPDIF converter within the next 3-4 months, that will bring it up to about $1300-$1500.
I actually did do a comparison, vinyl/digital, in my system, a friend brought over his budget turntable and we had a shoot out. He didn't like my Halo P3's phono stage, so we ran his single-ended outputs into the direct inputs on my pre. The vinyl front end was very enjoyable, considering the cost difference! We put his vinyl 'obscured by clouds' up against my recent digital re-master of the same album, and I really didn't prefer one or the other. But convenience won over eventually, we got tired of flipping plastic discs, and started picking music on the iPad...