Is Direct Drive Really Better?

I see this thread keeps on going! Actually Taviran, I didn't write that the Lencos were "as" accurate as SP10s, I wrote they were "more" accurate! Heard it in more than one system too. The Lencos are unresponsive to power-line tricks too, in my experience. But rather than encourage you to track the problem down, I'd rather you contact me so I can take them off your hands, especially the NOS one!

I'd add that with your experience you are by definition an audiophile, so logically I guess we can't trust you either. The French make a distinction between types of audiophile: those who love the equipment for the music they can produce, placing the music/software first, are called "melomane"; and those who love the equipment for the detail/information it can extract, thus focusing on the equipment more than the music/software (buying LPs based strictly on how they make a system sound is not "melomane" but equipment-oriented), are simply "audiophiles". Both know more about stereo equipment than your average bear, and so are forms of audiophile.

Johnnantais:

"types of audiophile: those who love the equipment for the music they can produce, placing the music/software first, are called "melomane"; and those who love the equipment for the detail/information it can extract, thus focusing on the equipment more than the music/software"

Maybe it's just the way you put it in translation, but to me this is a false distinction. All are audiophiles because all "love the equipment". (Personlly, I think I've passed the point where I can love my equipment for its own sake, perhaps only doing so when it's playing music the way I want it to, but maybe I just own the wrong equipment.) To me, the amount of information your equipment can extract, as you put it, from your recordings is a good 75% of the reason for doing any of this in the first place, with the other 25% falling to that equipment's intrinsic "sound" which is not on the recording. At least that's if we're doing this right.

"I see this thread keeps on going!"

Oh yeah, you're a great one to talk! ;^)

Just a question about this discussion.

Let's say that we somehow determine what kind of drive system has the best speed control. Determined through accepted measurements which group wow and flutter together. Even though it is patently apparent that most here do not even differentiate between the very different nature of wow or flutter components of these speed variations. Or what ramifications are involved with either of those variation types, as regards our hearing sensitivity.

What are we to do with that information?

Are we going to extrapolate that all forms of that type of drive system are then superior to all other forms? Or that no other type of drive system can compete, even at various levels of price?

And then are we going to look at all the other things that encompass a TT drive system, which are all equally important as the speed control? Such as vibration-induced information loss or exaggeration? Main bearing design? Platter construction? Etc?

Or are we going to blindly fly out and buy some form of that drive system, like lemmings over the cliff?

And, mind you, that what may measure best today, may be exceeded tomorrow by something else. Life at the top is fleeting. And remember, measuring the best very often does not equate to sounding the best.

I've lived with components in my system which are all far below the pinnacle of performance for many years, and still do today. Am I disappointed with my system? No, to the contrary I'm very happy with it because it makes music very nicely.

Unless you are willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars chasing the end of the rainbow(that you'll never reach), I'd suggest finding a nice group of components you can live with, and enjoy your music on them.

Lately, the audiophile climate is reminding me more and more of the late 70's and early 80's, with spec wars and the resulting poor performance that came with them.

Dear Taviran: +++++ " resolution of a system, its dynamic impact or its huge soundstage, that the fact that the turntable was completely off pitch evaded their notice. This is why I think that at least in this department, measurements are mandatory. " +++++

This is a normal situation between all of us audiophiles: our ears are perfectly " equalized " to our audio system, many of us can't hear the pitch differences. One of my point about is that people not attend to live music concert frequently, they usually heard the music through their own systems or through other friend systems and their ears are totally system " equalized ": there is no space to " pitch ".
Yes, I agree that measurements are mandatory., unfortunatelly no one TT designer cares about it: I wonder which were the TT design targets of those designers or against what they know that achieve it?. Obviously they trust in the " ears " that are really untrusty: ???????

++++ " Now from my experience, belt drives do indeed have pitch problems, but some more than others. " +++++ Of course. I already work hard with the power supply of my BD TTs to try to lower that problem. Certainly the SP 10s are better on this subject.

About the Lenco I appreciate the Johnnantais passion and that's why he think that the Lenco is better than the SP 10: Johnnantais bring with you your Lenco against one of my SP 10 and we will see.

Regards and enjoy the music.
raul.

Tom:

"it is patently apparent that most here do not even differentiate between the very different nature of wow or flutter components of these speed variations. Or what ramifications are involved with either of those variation types, as regards our hearing sensitivity"

I think "most" is "patently" not the word to describe the number of posters on this thread who actually disagree with your position here.

"Are we going to extrapolate that all forms of that type of drive system are then superior to all other forms? Or that no other type of drive system can compete, even at various levels of price?"

Isn't that basically what happened with belt-drive?

"are we going to blindly fly out and buy some form of that drive system, like lemmings over the cliff?"

Isn't that basically what happened with belt-drive?

I appreciate your arguments and knowledge, and yes, the question asked in the thread-head is maybe a bit overstated in order to be provocative, but IMO defending belt-drive doesn't require setting up a straw man. I will be interested to learn what you think of the Teres DD when the time comes, even if you might not be a customer for one.