TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

Thanks, Raul. I need to hear those differences rather than see them on paper to know if they are significant. And SME silicon is 60cS rather than 10, which I assume is a significant difference. I shall have to experiment some more, but it should wait until I finally move cartridges around on the tonearms so that they are in their final places (I'm being influenced by the idea, still, that the Decca will benefit the most from damping, if any of them do.)

Dear @dogberry  : Of course that you need to hear it.

I shared those measures only for we can see that damped vs undamped valuations.

They used 34 different cartridges as the Decca London Gold, Ortofon MC 30, Denon DL103D, Empire 2000, Goldring 900, Nakamichi MC 1000 ( I owned this and was a great performer. ), Shure V15, Sonus Silver and many more with different compliace/weigth, characteristics.

@mijostyn  I know that this gentleman has very good experience levels and very god knowledge levels and  I think that to post something that enhamce the subject dialogue he has to " open " a little his way of thinking.

R.

It took two albums this morning for me to change my mind and get up and swap the London Reference and the BM LP-S, moving the former on to the V and the latter on to the IV. Set the VTF, adjusted the overhang, set the anti-skate and rechecked the VTF. Refilled the damping trough with the last of my SME silicon, rechecked the level of the tables and off I went. Naturally everything sounds wonderful, as it always does after such exertions. I’m not sure it sounds different though! It had to be done at some stage, anyway, so no harm done. Maybe prolonged listening will make it all clear.

@dogberry : Yes, could be that way.

I have several years posting about that analog jitter/mistracking way before I started this thread or that P.Lenderman video and way before I knew about the white papers I mentioned here.

Those white papers are around 250 pages, it’s truly bigger to read it but yesterday for the first time I read there:

" this is atributed to cartridge vibration at high frequency upseting the subtle phase effects...."

" The name clamp or stabilizer seems more appropiate than damper, as the device only damps over a very narrow frequency range: 8hz-15hz but clamps from 20hz to 50khz. It is the clamping which gives the improvements:

a) bass coloration reduced

b) mid band "openess" improves

c)distortions at all frequencies is reduced

d)stereo imagery improved

e) tracking problems " eliminated " and

f) feedback greatly reduced. "

Maybe could be a good test with higher viscosity than 60K, at least this is my first hand experiences with different tonearms where I builded its dedicated trays.

R.

@rauliruegas I should be more specific and lass abrupt. There are some tonearm cartridge combinations that will benefit from damping.

There is more to resonance than just the frequency at which it occurs, there is also sensitivity, amplitude and duration. I run cartridges below 8 Hz all the time. The Lyra Atlas that I am listening to right now has a resonance frequency of 5 Hz. It is also on a very well isolated turntable and a great arm. I feel the bass better this way. All tonearms have a certain degree of damping from multiple sources such the flexibility of the tonearm wires, bearing friction, air resistance and the damping designed into the cantilever's suspension. The Schroder CB adds magnetic damping. However, if I put the Atlas/CB combination on a fixed base turntable the sensitivity of the system will decrease and the result might be feedback. 

Heavier arms with cartridges of medium to high compliance on fixed base turntables will do better with damping because damping decreases sensitivity, amplitude and duration at low frequencies just like a car's shock absorbers. 

My point is if one is careful about arm, turntable and cartridge choices additional damping should not be required and indeed can cause problems. 

The stylus tracking the groove has been compared to dragging a rock through a trench. This is not accurate. It is dragging a rock, topped by a dump truck, through a trench. In scale that is about the right "VTF'! The pressure in PSI is insanely high. Styluses do not bounce around all over the place unless the resonance frequency is way too high or the suspension is way too stiff. This is the problem with strain gauge cartridges. Their suspension is inherently stiff and they can not handle high groove velocities. It takes an extremely high groove velociity to get a good arm cartridge combination to leave the groove on the order of 90 to 100 um at 315 Hz.