Discuss The Viv Lab Rigid Arm

Barney, are you saying that the contents of this thread bear evidence that convinces you the Viv tonearm and other underhung tonearms are “worse than the disease” of antiskate? Or what?

FYI, underhung tonearms do generate a skating force except at their single null point. However, (1) that force is lower in magnitude than the skating force generated by overhung tonearms, and (2) the vector direction of the skating force changes from pointing inward to pointing outward, as the stylus passes through the null point.  This latter would make it tricky to design an AS device for an underhung tonearm. even if one were wanted.

Have you ever auditioned any underhung tonearm?

Dear @intactaudio : Why the stylus shape can affect the alignment?

Linear offset is the same always in both Löfgren A and B alignments if we don’t change the must inner groove and must outer grove distances.

If you have a cartridge /tonearm set up for Löfgren A alignment and by a mistake ( as happened to me twice times. ) you are 2mm-3mm forward against the correct overhang sooner or latter and through listening you will " catch " that something is not running well with that overall cartridge set up and it is because you are out of the original calculated linear offset.

I had at least twice times first hand experiences with and at least coincide with the Löfgren statement.

What have you on hand and from where say that zenith is more important than overhang: how much more important? could you share your specific first hand experiences on the whole issue? and remember that the VIV way high angular offset has no " audible distortions ". It's what their owners shared everywhere.

Well, something to share with you is that I just finished my listening tests making on purpose a 2mm overhang error and other test changing only ( what more or less permits the headshell ) the angular offset. I think you need to do it.

Still the question about the stylus tip shape stays to you.

R.

@rauliruegas

Well, something to share with you is that I just finished my listening tests making on purpose a 2mm overhang error and other test changing only ( what more or less permits the headshell ) the angular offset. I think you need to do it.

If you only change overhang without a corresponding change in Zenith you will not be in a good place. Here is a standard Lofgren A compared to a Lofgren A with a 2mm increase of overhang.

here is the same +2mm with a complimentary 1.4° change in zenith.

and to complete things here is back to the standard Lof A overhang with a 1.4° Zenith error.

dave

Dear @drbarney1  : You are totally rigth: " makes the " cure " only worse ".

But even that huge VIV offset angle the issue is that has no " detectable " listen distortions but the other way around:

" Suffice to say that each of the 3 cartridges sounds better in the Viv than it has in either of two other well regarded conventional overhung pivoted tonearms. The characteristic sound is "vivid", as the name suggests........., coherent (I detect absolutely no negative effect of the TAE at outer or inner grooves), and undistorted.  I think that individual instruments in large orchestral pieces are more easily appreciated. Sound stage is open and spacious.  Sense of depth is as good as I ever heard, if not better..."

I already posted that the election of this VIV tonearm is a Personal Choice.

I already posted several times through several years: no one can questioning ( negative ) any other gentleman for what he or I like, because that's what I like no matters what.

The pity issue in the overall VIV subject is that ours ears/brain is truly poor to detect the " nice " VIV developed distortions.

R.

Raul, You and others have successfully equated TAE with "distortion" in the minds of most, without ever having defined what sort of distortion might result from TAE and its audibility, apart from phase distortion, which I think is trivial compared to all the other sources of phase distortion that are inherent to home audio systems, let alone to vinyl. What is needed is a serious study of this phenomenon where measurements are made. While we are at it, in the same study, skating force distortion ought also to be measured. Until then, your complete conviction that you alone are possessed of the "truth" rings hollow to me. Is your close-minded attitude any better than the behavior of the AHEE that you so revile? And by the way, worship of minimizing TAE at all costs is a basic tenet of the AHEE. That’s why we have 12-inch tonearms and several linear trackers where the cure is certainly worse than the disease, referring to LTs that use a noisy motor or gravity derived by dishing the platter, or a poorly designed air bearing, to drive the pivot across the LP, and LTs with stubby arm wands that maximize the deleterious effects of even small warps.

By the way, Dave was in my house and demonstrated the negative effects of zenith error, using one of my conventional overhung pivoted tonearms and a cartridge that was correctly aligned to begin with. (This was months before I purchased the Viv.) The improvement in SQ associated with correcting for the zenith error of the stylus mount was immediately apparent.