Anyone compare the 005 to the Border Patrol dac?
Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC
Some history: I was the OP on a four year old thread about the Chinese LKS MH-DA004 DAC. It achieved an underground buzz. The open architecture of its predecessor MH-DA003 made it the object of a lot of user mods, usually to its analog section, rolling op amps or replacing with discrete. The MH-DA004 with its new ESS chips and JFET analog section was called better then the modified older units. It has two ES9038pro DAC chips deliberately run warm, massive power supply, powered Amanero USB board, JFET section, 3 Crystek femtosecond clocks, Mundorf caps, Cardas connectors, etc., for about $1500. For this vinyl guy any reservation about ESS chips was resolved by the LKS implimentaion, but their revelation of detail was preserved, something that a listener to classic music especially appreciated. I made a list of DACs (many far more expensive) it was compared favorably to in forums. Modifications continued, now to clocks and caps. Components built to a price can be improved by costlier parts and the modifiers wrote glowingly of the SQ they achieved.
Meanwhile, during the 4 years after release of the MH-DA004, LKS (now Musetec) worked on the new MH-DA005 design, also with a pair of ES9038pro chips. This time he used more of the best components available. One torroidal transformer has silver plated copper. Also banks of super capacitors that act like batteries, solid silver hookup wire, 4 femtoclocks each costing multiples of the Crysteks, a revised Amanero board, more of the best European caps and a new partitioned case. I can't say cost NO object, but costs well beyond. A higher price, of course. Details at http://www.mu-sound.com/DA005-detail.html
The question, surely, is: How does it sound? I'm only going to answer indirectly for the moment. I thought that the MH-DA004 was to be my last DAC, or at least for a very long time. I was persuaded to part with my $$ by research, and by satisfaction with the MH-DA004. Frankly, I have been overwhelmed by the improvement; just didn't think it was possible. Fluidity, clarity, bass extension. A post to another board summed it up better than I can after listening to piano trios: "I have probably attended hundreds of classical concerts (both orchestral and chamber) in my life. I know what live sounds like in a good and bad seat and in a good and mediocre hall. All I can say is HOLY CRAP, this sounds like the real thing from a good seat in a good hall. Not an approximation of reality, but reality."
Meanwhile, during the 4 years after release of the MH-DA004, LKS (now Musetec) worked on the new MH-DA005 design, also with a pair of ES9038pro chips. This time he used more of the best components available. One torroidal transformer has silver plated copper. Also banks of super capacitors that act like batteries, solid silver hookup wire, 4 femtoclocks each costing multiples of the Crysteks, a revised Amanero board, more of the best European caps and a new partitioned case. I can't say cost NO object, but costs well beyond. A higher price, of course. Details at http://www.mu-sound.com/DA005-detail.html
The question, surely, is: How does it sound? I'm only going to answer indirectly for the moment. I thought that the MH-DA004 was to be my last DAC, or at least for a very long time. I was persuaded to part with my $$ by research, and by satisfaction with the MH-DA004. Frankly, I have been overwhelmed by the improvement; just didn't think it was possible. Fluidity, clarity, bass extension. A post to another board summed it up better than I can after listening to piano trios: "I have probably attended hundreds of classical concerts (both orchestral and chamber) in my life. I know what live sounds like in a good and bad seat and in a good and mediocre hall. All I can say is HOLY CRAP, this sounds like the real thing from a good seat in a good hall. Not an approximation of reality, but reality."
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These two DACs are probably very good, each in its own right. But they are very different, and really not comparable. The Border Patrol is an R2R DAC using a NOS Phillips chip. Its tube is a rectifier, not a signal tube. It is much less expensive than the Musetec and its interior looks like the very small scale hand-built unit that it is. It lacks the massive power supply and the discrete balanced analog section provided in DACs like the Musetec. It provides what is considered to be an old fashoned sound with only modest detail, transparency and texture. Some call this sort of performance "musical" though I do not. The Musetec is an up to date DAC with SOTA or near-SOTA detail, transparency and texture. It was compared here to a very well known up to date R2R (discrete, not chip) DAC. These two are quite similar, with differences noted. But the Musetec and Border Patrol have such different design intentions that a buyer would not typically narrow his choice down to these two. |
This is an update on the Musetec 005 DAC. Jinbo, the owner and designer at Musetec has this response about the measurements at ASR: "We use a low-gain output stage on the DA005, which is the main reason for poor test data, but it sounds good.
The same is true for many vacuum tube amplifiers. Low gain, low feedback or even no feedback, the test data is also poor, but it does not prevent them from providing first-class listening sense."
Also I wanted to let you know that if want to elevate the performance of the Musetec to get ultimate performance, you could use the I2s input which allows a pure digital stream to go directly to the DAC chip giving a more transparent sound. Something like the Jay's Audio transport connected with an HDMI cable to the I2s input will provide exceptional performance.(I have tried the Jay's Audio with other DACs over I2s and there wasn't the big leap in clarity and transparency that you get with Musetec 005 I2s input.) Or if you have a server that outputs USB, you can either connect it directly with a USB cable or you can use the LKS 100 USB converter to swicth to I2s if you desire, which will give you better performance provided you use good cables. Thank you, Jason at Midwest Audio |
It is unfortunate that Audiogon does not provide a search-within-thead function. For an extended thread like this one it would be invaluable. It turns out that much of what you have written has already been the subject of much discussion. It’s good though to be reminded of these important considerations. As for the discussion in this thread and the designer’s initial response you may wish to look here and in the surrounding posts. There has been much discussion about using the 10 year old LKS 100 USB converter, with mixed experiences. My own view is that the USB to I2S conversion is better done within the Musetec as it has more sophistication in its power supply and in its crystal clocks than does the old LKS DDC and involves one less cable. I think the unique approach to USB to I2S conversion in the Musetec is one of its great advances and contributes to its performance. On the other hand, we may agree that one can achieve theoretically better SQ using the Musetec I2S input if the USB function can be avoided as with the Jay’s Audio unit. Look here, here and here and in the discussions nearby. |
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