Discuss The Viv Lab Rigid Arm

Dear @alan60 : " My take on all this is the company is being different for the sake of being different. "

That’s what @clearthinker posted and seems to me is just rigth.

I return to something I already posted:

" all the designer/manufacturer statements he posted in his site has no single evidence to be true. " and are stupid for say the least. I don’t care about followers.

What K.Scott could says a bout has no importance to any one but you because there is not factible evidence/facts to support it.

Almost all in this thread are already cooking the " fish " when not even pick-up the fish, go figure.

If you just did not understand that the VIV 10° of TAE avoid/impedes for the cartridge STYLUS TIP can ride in adequated/accurated way the groove modulations that’s where is the " rigth fish "and if the cartridge stylus tip can’t ride succesfully those modulations because of that very hifgh TAE then and before any kind of developed distortions as in any tonearm you just do not have the " fish " that is in the recording but a way different kind of fish that puts you away from the recording. If you can’t understand those facts then is you who has not the authority to chime about.

Your like it or the other " like it " owners or Scott are only good to each one of you that understand nothing what is really happening down there.

Please think on this: where " things " start/begin before you can listen any kind of sound? Yes, that stylus tip TAE be at minimum not at maximum as your tonearm 10° TAE.

Please first pick-up the rigth " fish " not the other. Gentleman just common sense.

You are a VIV satisfied owner, good try to follow in that way but don’t try to win a war with out any real/true weapon. But that’s you and free to make what ever you want it.

R.

Dear @lewm : I will answer you even that you still do not to my pending question.

Overhung tonearms has 2 null points and this is an advantage over the underhung because in reality the overhung almost always are ridding with lower TAE than the underhung ones that rides more surface distance at higher TAE.

I don’t like 12" for other reasons ( that I posted several times. ) and the same for LT tonearms.

Maximum TAE in a 12" tonearm is 1.36° ( Löfgren A IEC standard ) and for a 9" ONE IS 1.9° AND MY FAVORITE 10.5" IS 1.59°.

Even with those minimal maximum TAE exist differences in tracing distortions minimal but exist: 0.43% average distortion vs 0.31% in the 12"

My target is try to stay truer to the recording and I think that the best tonearm for my target is the 10.5° EL where the VIV just can’t compete.

Lewm, which kind of " fish " do you want? and when you decide that then follow try to pick-up. That’s it.

You said: why TAE so critical?. Well in the past tonearms came with no TAE or wrong TAE, so Löfgren decided ( along other gentlemans as Baerwald, Stevenson, Bauer, Pisha,etc, etc. ) to determine the " rigth " offset angle that could permit the cartridge stylus tip to follow more accurated the groove LP modulations to achieve minimum distortion tracing levels and VIV came to the audio world at says: forgeret all those because is wrong and this is the new " fish " and several audiophiles just believe with out any facts. So: do you think is critical or not? and please answer and don't be elusive about.

Useless all other: " like it ", " believes " or " thinking "

Where are the targets of all of you? then decide in concordance with.

R..

@intactaudio 

That said, when eyeballing it I have always picked the slots that error on  trailing side since the thought of the stylus leading the pivot terrifies me. 

My gut feel is the opposite.

If the pivot trails the stylus tip the cantilever suspension joint is closer to the pivot point,

compared to

if the stylus tip trails the pivot point ( as you run it ), then the cantilever suspension point is further from the pivot point and therefore any directional correction driven from the stylus tracking the groove will result in a higher lateral force on the cantilever - more mass swinging around behind the pivot point too

@alan60 , You need to read the thread. What people think they hear is essentially meaningless. It tell you nothing about the actual performance of the unit. It only tells you that it works and plays music.

@lewm , As I said minimizing distortion is important and the phase error that a 10 degree tracking error causes is most definitely audible. 2 or three degrees maybe not, but as the error increases the phase shift crawls down the frequency spectrum to places where it is more audible with systems that image correctly. Listen to a great recording of a female soprano. Then twist your cartridge 10 degrees and listen again. Her location will become less distinct. Some might mistake this for ambience which it most certainly not. 

The Viv arm has other substantial disabilities like it's bearing and I know you and I agree on this. A tonearm has to be rigidly connected to the plater. THey can be absolutely no differential in their movement. A tonearm can have two degrees of freedom period, vertical and horizontal.    

All I can say is listen for yourself and then you can judge and have an informed opinion. If you hear one and like what you hear then great, if you don't like it then that's great as well.

There is an old saying 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'.