Added an SUT...not sure I understood this


I just added a Denon AU-320 step-up transformer in between my AT-OC9XML cart and my ARC SP-14 preamp.  I am glad that the (relatively quiet) hum that had been present before is now gone...and I mean gone...since that was what motivated me to add an SUT.

However:

I sort of expected that I would also experience a noticeable increase in gain.  Specifically, using the 40-ohm (10X) tap, I would have expected maybe a 6-8 dB increase in volume, and more with the 3 ohm tap.  I am not hearing that, and in fact am getting the opposite effect.  This means I actually have to peg the volume control if I want to achieve 95 dB levels at my listening position, something I rarely, but still occasionally, do.

Also, I removed the 22-ohm loading resistor upon connecting the SUT.  I noticed previously that a 40-ohm loading still had the cart sounding pretty bright.  But with no loading and using the 40-ohm tap, things sound natural.  I sort of expected I was going to need to add a 40-ohm resistor (at the tonearm) to achieve the same loading.

All of this confuses me; I'm happy so far with the sound yet perplexed.  Perhaps some good Samaritan here will be able to explain why I am hearing what I am hearing.  in the meantime, I'm just going to enjoy my quieter background. 

Ag insider logo xs@2xwoofhaven1992

@intactaudio 

I concur with lew and it makes no sense to me how a loading a cartridge can have different "ideal" values for different amplification types.

Wrong. That is not what @lewm said. He said -

I’ve never understood why the minimum load can be acceptably different for the same cartridge with vs without a SUT in the circuit. 

Lewm was comparing active mc amplification vs SUT's.

You really do need to read posts more carefully, unless you are deliberately misinterpreting posts.

It is clear from your conclusion that you do not understand how current mode and voltage mode gain stages work, and I would suggest if you are genuinely interested then you should do some study - there are plenty of high schools that run after school programmes that are excellent.

 

@dover 

 

This splinter of the OP's tree is in reference to the load a cartridge sees and in particular any variance from the cartridge manufacturers suggestions. 

Lewm was comparing active mc amplification vs SUT's.

No....  Lew was wondering in what world  20Ω = 100Ω. How can 20Ω be unacceptable from an active stage but perfectly OK from a SUT?  I entered my guess at an explanation that the 20Ω value is not an actual load value but the recommended input to use of the AT1000T.  This input happens to load the cartridge at just over the 100Ω manufacture spec.  Simply put a somewhat confusing manufacturers data sheet reconciles the difference and keeps the manufacturers suggestion consistent.  

It is clear from your conclusion that you do not understand how current mode and voltage mode gain stages work

Other than the load value presented to the cartridge, how a gain stage operates has zero bearing on the topic of cartridge loading.  My only reference to current amplification used a specific model (MCCI) since it has a published input impedance number of <3Ω.  To be clear... it is the 3Ω that is the issue here NOT that it is a current amp.  From the most basic perspective I want to know from you how a <3Ω load can be used with a cartridge that has a 100Ω minimum recommended load and possibly sound good?  I can't be the only person who sees this disconnect.

Since you seem unwilling or unable to answer that simple question, let me frame the same situation differently:

Can we agree that the OP's cart into a 1:20 will see just over a 100Ω load and present approximately 8mV to the input of a "generic" gain stage?   Now lets change that 1:20 to a 1:50 and then place an 11Ω resistor across the primary to add an additional load to the cartridge directly.  The voltage output of this combo will be the same 8mV into the same "generic" gain stage. Now the load the cartridge sees will be 7Ω which is well below what you would deem acceptable.  Both the measured and the subjective sonic results of the above experiment surprised me and really got me thinking about what loading a cartridge really does. It also makes me wonder what the manufacturers published values are based on.  

dave

 

 

@dover Feel free to dunk, it's apparently important to you.  Yes, you are right that I initially indicated the incorrect sub-species of the OC9. You remain incorrect, however, about the correct loading with the SP14, which contains neither a head-amp or an SUT built in.  

@woofhaven1992 

You remain incorrect, however, about the correct loading with the SP14, which contains neither a head-amp or an SUT built in.  

Wrong. The SP14 has a FET based input at the front end of the phono stage., Its same principle as a head amp. Correct loading is 100ohms minimum as per the manual.

I don't have an issue if you prefer 25ohms, thats your ears. I post so that others reading can get the best out of their cartridge using the minimum loading as recommended by the manufacturer. My own experience with setting up many OC9's of various types in multiple systems is that around 400ohms is optimum and it is clear that you have no interest in even trying alternative loading.