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Acoustic Signature turntables

I do not see a lot written about these turntables by end users. Can anyone share experiences or opinions on reliability, use, and design considerations?

Some of my observations or questions (keep in mind these are naive as I have never heard these models and I may be wrong about assumptions made).

1. Why the multiple motors? This is the one I struggle in understanding. Is the AVC (motor vibration reduction) that they provide somehow enhanced when working across more than one motor? How is this different than other motor vibration reduction methods such as the Rega method? Whether additional noise or reduced drive capability, who knows (?). How long to get up to speed?

2. Standard bearing vs inverted vs magnetic. I suppose there will never be consensus but noticed AS steadfastly implements standard bearings that focus on the materials used.

3. Platter dampening. Their method seems to work well. However, I noticed comments about earlier models being overly damped. The dampening increases up the product line.

4. Very heavy platters compared to some competition. Even the lower models have very heavy platters so they seem to think this is important.

5. Subplatter vs no subplatter. AS seems to have moved to subplatter design for models that can take multiple arms. Did they always think this method was superior?

6. Tonearms. Not much out there about the tonearms. Seems once again standard design but focus on materials…carbon fiber and bearings.

7. Back to motors. AS uses AC motors. Kuzma insists on DC. I guess I can try to read up on the differences and why manufacturers prefer different types. Any thoughts here? I am probably not be smart enough to understand the finer points about turntable motors (lol).

8.  Warranty.  AS seems to offer the longest warranty.  As with other warranties, what good is it if no design specs and performance tolerances are published?  Seems few turntable manufacturers publish relevant specs these days.  On one hand, I understand why in dealing with picky audiophiles and on the other hand, unfortunate.

Would appreciate additional thoughts. Thanks!

 

plinko
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
12,831 posts
 

Dear @mijostyn ​@plinko  : I agree that we can't overdap the TT and even if we could that's a good notice.

 

In the otherside AS TTdoes not needs multiple motors, more than one is only an alternative for the owners. It's really need it more than one? certainly not. I used mines with one motor with out any single issue and this I do for several years. Even that I made tests time to time with a second motor playing and in no time my way of thinking about changed.

 

About motor torque per sé means nothing because all is relative to the overall TT design. The AS is low torque because has a heavy platter that under playing only needs little help to spin due to its very good inertia. Overall design defines TT characteristics.

When using my units I give it a little help with my hand just to start and spinn at 33rpm in no more than 10seconds. Not big deal..

 

R.

aoliviero
269 posts
 

AS turntables are great!  I used to have the Mambo and still regard it as one of the best turntables I own.  I regret selling it.  Stick with AC driven platters.

 

williambf
14 posts
 

Rumor has it the Levinson 5105 TT/Arm is an Acoustic Signature manufactured in Germany system.

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,223 posts
 

@plinko , The magnetic bearings I am familiar with are very stiff. If you push down on the platter there is no noticeable give. In the case of the Sota what you have are opposing neodymium ring magnets, one on the sub chassis  surrounding the spindle and the other on the mating end of the bearing which is machined into the platter. With the platter installed there might be a 1/64th" space between the two which is the equilibrium point between the magnetic field strength and the weight of the platter. Pushing down on the platter raises the intensity of the field dramatically. It is virtually impossible to make the magnets touch. The magnets will last a whole lot longer than you. The bearing would probably wear out first.

Heavier platters do have more inertia and that is a good thing up to a point then it is all about male testosterone levels. There are plenty of turntables with less massive platters that have SOTA wow and flutter specs. There is more pitch variation generated by irregularities of the record than there is speed irregularities of the turntable like warps and off center spindle holes.

Clear audio's bearing is fine with it's more expensive models.

There is more pride in knowing that your turntable produces the best performance by virtue of it's design. Watch this video all the way through. It will teach you a lot about turntables in general. 

 

If you have a Kuzma dealer near by look at the Ref 2. Good table for the money. I think the Stabi M is his best turntable. SME makes fine turntables as does Basis but of all of then the Sota is handily the best value. For $10K you can have a great suspension, vacuum clamping and a state of the art drive system. Only Basis makes a similar turntable at this moment and it costs 3 times as much.

 

karl_desch's avatar
karl_desch
422 posts
 

My current table is a thread driven high mass design with a opposing magnets on the plinth and platter to reduce bearing stress. I have both AC-thread (original) and DC belt drive on the same table, the later an add on from Galibier designs.  I prefer the DC motor rigid belt from Galibier. It actually doesn't measure as good as the thread drive AC motor when analyzed with the Fieckert Adjust + but it is close. The difference in presentation I hear is that the Galibier motor and belt bring the performers into the room a little more and bring out dynamics compared to a little more laid back presentation of the original AC-thread drive. I have a feeling that the difference is more due to the better grip on the platter with the rigid belt drive from Galibier.  

Kuzma also uses a rigid belt and DC motor design.  I encourage you to audition the Stabi R/M or Ref2.  I also had the opportunity to borrow a friends TechDas V with an SME 3012.  You need to audition one of those too. I would have no concerns about the compressor as implemented by TechDas.  It is totally silent.  The TechDas imaged a little more precisely than either motor implementations on my table and kept the incredible dynamics.  The vacuum hold down was also very nice.

Have fun and take your time. You cant go wrong if you buy what you liked hearing the best. My future table will likely be a Galibier, Kuzma or TechDas.... 

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