objective vs. subjective rabbit hole


There are many on this site who advocate, reasonably enough, for pleasing one’s own taste, while there are others who emphasize various aspects of judgment that aspire to be "objective." This dialectic plays out in many ways, but perhaps the most obvious is the difference between appeals to subjective preference, which usually stress the importance of listening, vs. those who insist on measurements, by means of which a supposedly "objective" standard could, at least in principle, serve as arbiter between subjective opinions.

It seems to me, after several years of lurking on and contributing to this forum, that this is an essential crux. Do you fall on the side of the inviolability of subjective preference, or do you insist on objective facts in making your audio choices? Or is there some middle ground here that I’m failing to see?

Let me explain why this seems to me a crux here. Subjective preferences are, finally, incontestable. If I prefer blue, and you prefer green, no one can say either of us is "right." This attitude is generous, humane, democratic—and pointless in the context of the evaluation of purchase alternatives. I can’t have a pain in your tooth, and I can’t hear music the way you do (nor, probably, do I share your taste). Since this forum exists, I presume, as a source of advice from knowledgable and experienced "audiophiles" that less "sophisticated" participants can supposedly benefit from, there must be some kind of "objective" (or at least intersubjective) standard to which informed opinions aspire. But what could possibly serve better as such an "objective standard" than measurements—which, and for good reasons, are widely derided as beside the point by the majority of contributors to this forum?

To put the question succinctly: How can you hope to persuade me of any particular claim to audiophilic excellence without appealing to some "objective" criteria that, because they claim to be "objective," are more than just a subjective preference? What, in short, is the point of reading all these posts if not to come to some sort of conclusion about how to improve one’s system?

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Wow! an amazing post @mrmb and well written!!

 

I like the "measurement objectivist activist" term. You should trademark it as you penned it. I would personally replace "activist" with "militant" though, or maybe "missionary"

Anyway, the time is already here where A.I. will manage acoustic perfectly and his link to the gear system and vice versa...Way "better" than any human acoustician...

 

It is already here in art and design, suppressing artists jobs on the net and in life , and in medecine with corporate global empire suppressing the doctors freedom and the natural way to disease control towards a complete technological domination...For the better on some counts but for the worst either..

Some will call that a progress, and it is in many ways a progress...

It is also the human soul which is at stake...It is an evolutive boundary here...

History emerge from evolution in the natural world with the creation of the symbolic/virtual world ( language), and history NOW enter anew in the sleeping evolution river with the merging and erasure of the natural word, his assimilation into a new symbolic/virtual world ( computations) ... It is an evolutive jump an end of history but unlike Fukuyama anticipated it... Global totalitarian mechanical state...

 

Why A.I. represent is not only a progress but a danger and a challenge?

Because in art it is not the artificial perfection of the A.I. crafsmamship that is the more precious, but the meaningful imperfection of the humam eye and hand...

Imperfection is the door to the history of human consciousness through art history...Machine art will have no history only some  dates void of meaning referering only to new mathematical power...Spirit dont exist in this world...

The choice is freedom/soul/nature/ versus technological idolatry... And more and more people have already lost their mind in this idolatry...

We will miss imperfection tomorrow because only imperfection is the peak and the apex of the soul and spirit not machine perfection which is the most empty perfection possible...

Our technology is too advanced for our mind state in this earth civilization on the brink of nuclear war right now...we are unbalanced...We dont even cherish freedom over confort, and there is no manifestation at all in the world right now against the nuclear war at the corner... Sleepwalkers accuses each others...Anyway....

 

 

The A.I. for example would have created a better acoustic room than my actual one which is, so astounding it was for me, anyway an imperfect one for sure...

But what i would have lost with this A.I. work at my place doing all the job ?

I would have lost the essential: my fun creative journey for 2 years in acoustic tuning and i would have lost what i gained in the journey: an integrated body/ ears sound/music experience and knowledge...

I would have lost my creativity and my soul....

I choose imperfection at the end because there is only love where there is also imperfection...And without love knowledge dont maintain meaning...

Machine cannot be creative, they play on their perfect computerized " prepared" ground and nowwhere else...They reduce the territory to a map more "real" than the territory itself...

The goal of the perfect A.I. is an earth without inferior useless life organisms and the entire earth minerals will become his dead immortal body floating in space ...

All science fiction writers anticipated it long ago, like Orwell and Huxley anticipated the "actual ministry of truth" that some illiterated zombies wanted to create right now...

No protests ... We sleep....And buy computers...And we wait for a war...

 

 

mahgister, And I'm talking about my audio room and listening to music!  I'm not sure A.I. is particularly suited to art and our forum.  But it is obvious that you've been pondering the AI question far more than I. 

What a philosophical post!  Thanks for giving me something to consider, whether I find doing so pleasant vs sticking my head in the sand to escape it. 

Your: "we are unbalanced" statement is persuasively thought provoking.  And indeed, human freedoms of thought, actions and speech have recently been excerpted and more easily parted with, far more readily and in numbers than I would have ever imagined, in turn for "comfort" and supposed safety.  We have seen that there are no freedoms, unless they are fought for with the imperative importance and the loving protection they deserve.  Once we have underestimated their utmost importance and have allowed them to be taken away, wining them back, will be a battle.  You and your loved ones may be your friend and care for and about you; but no one else does, especially entities such as private and public businesses and governments. By definition, they are like AI, empathyless, soullessly inward-looking, self-preserving, caring only for themselves; quite contrary to the verbiage and lies that they spokespersons spout; which is the  opposite of what they're trying to convince everyone.      

Science can be stranger than fiction.  However, you are correct, the science fiction authors have been spot-on regarding many issues and subjects.    

 

mahgister, Before my above post, I didn't watch the video.  It was supremely interesting....thanks for including it!!!  The yin and the yang, the pros and cons, the balance sheet of everything we touch or do in life.  Food for thought coupled with food to survive or, _______ _______   So may blanks to fill-in, where to start??  

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