Wow! an amazing post @mrmb and well written!!
I like the "measurement objectivist activist" term. You should trademark it as you penned it. I would personally replace "activist" with "militant" though, or maybe "missionary"
objective vs. subjective rabbit hole
There are many on this site who advocate, reasonably enough, for pleasing one’s own taste, while there are others who emphasize various aspects of judgment that aspire to be "objective." This dialectic plays out in many ways, but perhaps the most obvious is the difference between appeals to subjective preference, which usually stress the importance of listening, vs. those who insist on measurements, by means of which a supposedly "objective" standard could, at least in principle, serve as arbiter between subjective opinions.
It seems to me, after several years of lurking on and contributing to this forum, that this is an essential crux. Do you fall on the side of the inviolability of subjective preference, or do you insist on objective facts in making your audio choices? Or is there some middle ground here that I’m failing to see?
Let me explain why this seems to me a crux here. Subjective preferences are, finally, incontestable. If I prefer blue, and you prefer green, no one can say either of us is "right." This attitude is generous, humane, democratic—and pointless in the context of the evaluation of purchase alternatives. I can’t have a pain in your tooth, and I can’t hear music the way you do (nor, probably, do I share your taste). Since this forum exists, I presume, as a source of advice from knowledgable and experienced "audiophiles" that less "sophisticated" participants can supposedly benefit from, there must be some kind of "objective" (or at least intersubjective) standard to which informed opinions aspire. But what could possibly serve better as such an "objective standard" than measurements—which, and for good reasons, are widely derided as beside the point by the majority of contributors to this forum?
To put the question succinctly: How can you hope to persuade me of any particular claim to audiophilic excellence without appealing to some "objective" criteria that, because they claim to be "objective," are more than just a subjective preference? What, in short, is the point of reading all these posts if not to come to some sort of conclusion about how to improve one’s system?
Showing 4 responses by thyname
@mmb +1 |
^^^^^^^^
Yup! Well said again @mrmb ! This type of behavior is likely subject to several psychologic diagnosis and studies on mental health I suppose. Savior Complex, Hero Syndrome, etc. etc. I cannot explain it another way |
@snilf :
I hope not, but I think you are clearly missing the point the objective measurement activists make in these audio forums. And militantly so. In their perfect world, no one will be allowed to share any subjective impressions, unless backed by “science”, in other words, by either independently certified by third party panels blind tests, or, measurements. If not, everything is null and void, basically hallucinations.
I am copying below the comment from the master of them all these folks, who is currently posting under a 13th username in Audiogon. This sums it all, their psyche.
I just stated rather clearly that until you either prove beyond reasonable doubt that the claims are really heard, or provide some relevant scientific basis for differences to be heard, then the posts are simply self indulgent. |