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Speaker recommendation $10-20K (with some requirements!)

Recent lessons of the developing audiophile:


  • Don’t buy speakers without demonstration

  • Speaker break in is real...but will not fundamentally change DNA

  • Really appreciate the wisdom of this forum!


I recently changed my old B&W Matrix 803 Series 2 with new Dynaudio Countour 60i’s. A number of you helped on my: How important is speaker break-in? post - thanks! The Dyn’s are not fully broken in, but I think I can see where this is going: They have great soundstage, detail, and bass. In comparison, the B&Ws sound smaller, thinner, slightly less detailed overall, and do not throw big bass. (The B&W’s are supplemented nicely with a quality subwoofer, but that still sounds a little more like component parts stitched together, than the way the Dyn’s deliver an integrated output).  


The problem? The Dyn’s are hard in the mids and highs, and my (aging) ears are very sensitive to that. I have some tinnitus that I usually don’t notice...unless a hard or ringing sound sets it off, and these speakers are doing it big time. Immediately fatiguing (unless the recording is just somebody plucking at a bass guitar). The B&Ws are pretty sweet in the mid-range and most recordings don’t trip my hard/edgy line. So, I WILL go demo before buying this time, but I am hoping this group can help narrow the search a bit, and I am letting budget drift up if that helps get it done. Here are constraints and goals, and equipment:


*Absolutely must be smooth and silky - not hard, edgy, ringing, brittle, etc. - in the mids and highs. Ironically, I tend to listen mostly to heavier music, but I care mostly about sweet and detailed delivery of delicate sounds, like vocals and piano. For say, heavy metal, I don’t care if the system reproduces it perfectly, only that it tilts away from ragged, ringing tones as much as possible.


*After that, I want a big, authoritative sound with meaningful bass, detail - everything one would want in a speaker, but compromises can be made.  


*Room Treatments. Room is medium size, does not have treatments, and it is what it is. It is not a dedicated audio room, so I can’t start throwing stuff up on the walls (WAF). (The room does have the benefit of being wood floor applied directly to concrete (with a rug), so at least the floor doesn’t resonate. And it has 2 layers of sheetrock in places). I will live with my room compromises, but the sound coming out the speakers themselves does matter and I want to focus on that.


*Prefer tower style for aesthetics and fit, but open to boxy (e.g. Harbeth) if that’s where I need to go.  


* Equipment: All digital inputs to ARC DAC 8 -> ARC Ref5se preamp -> Bryston 7BSST2 monoblocks (600W). I get that the whole system matters, and that Brystons are supposed to be a little hard. But this problem really started with the new speakers, so that is where I am focusing. If you really think different amps or something are going to turn the Dynaudio’s silky sweet in the mids and high, please say that with some conviction and support.


As always, really appreciate the greater knowledge of this community!



mathiasmingus
musicaddict
370 posts
 
It is surprising that the Dynaudios seem harsher than the 803s. I have to agree with keithr.  I own old B&W DM-302 bookshelves and have heard the B&W line-up consistently over 25 years. I've always thought my Dynaudio Sapphires were smoother, the Excite X-12 monitors okay. 800Ds are nice but my listening ends soon enough (ouch). And it's strange you had no apparent amp issue with B&W... 

I agree with twoleftears that Dyn had gone 'forward sounding'. That's been my experience at RMAF over the many years I've attended (and volunteered when feeling generous). Vandies are nice and don't seem to beat up your ears as well.

My quick recommendation for audio bliss for you would be akin to: 
used Raidho D1's or D2s (D1.1s at $10.5), two SVS SB-3000 subs ($2 or $2.2 both), and one DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 room correction system ($800?) with digital equalizer if desired (yes-use it, don't overdo it).

At under $14k you will enjoy the tweeter that made me ditch the full range Sapphires even with the wonderful Esotar II tweeter which I had love to pieces for five years. It is supremely detailed and (for good or bad, purists) I have never, ever heard sibilance or harshness from any program material. Raidho sound is detailed and lush and beautiful.

The DSPeaker unit will transform and mate the the SB-3000 subs for rock-solid tight base to 30Hz and I'd suggest high passing at 70 or 80 to the Raidhos to allow them a bit more dynamics. If you can live with low dynamic peaks to the low 90s, (and kinda full range with the subs).

Get ready to beat me up for my choices or lack of funds. I've been using a the external loop on a W4S STI-1000 integrated with the DSP unit and it is dead/inaudible silent, and the 500-1000 watts do wonders for the old used D2s that I got in late 2016 (after trading the dealer my Sapphires, X-12s, Scansonic MB2.5s and $too).

I was using an R.E.L. Britannia B1 sub crossed at 28Hz and achieved beautiful flat response to 25Hz due to the port I believe. I just got a new SB-3000 and finally I seem able to use a high pass to the D2s of 70 Hz and a low pass of 55 on the sub for non-identifiable blending. I was might impressed at that $1000 SB-3000, very awesome and tight. That high pass to the D2s has definitely given me more peak dynamics (4-5 dB?) and I'm getting even happier.

Oh yeah, Harbeth's can make my toes tingle too! And great other suggestions listed above by twoleftears.



maxwave's avatar
maxwave
924 posts
 
OP

Thanks a lot 
you make me laugh with your comments 
It is good  these days .
jrbirdman333
105 posts
 
My Dyn 60i produce no listening fatigue at all. Smoothe like butter. Your description doesn't fit the sound profile of my speakers. Im powering them with Naim equipment. Could it be that the speakers aren't happily married to your pre/amplification? 
Post removed 
tastypeter's avatar
tastypeter
18 posts
 
I also have some tinnitus, and recently demoed a few speakers. I found most were to bright for my liking. I currently have a pair of Focal Sopra 2’s with a Prima Luna tube amp. I absolutely love them, it took some time to break in as speakers do. I lean to a warm sound, it’s what attracts me and keep me from listening fatigue. So I run a second system in my record room. I had my old classic Jbl L 100 down there. I always enjoyed them, and for nostalgia purposes I hated to part with them. But the Focal’s  spoiled me, every time I listened to the Jbl they were not even in the same stratosphere. So off I went and listened to a bunch of stuff. I was told the Focal Spectral 40th anniversary , were very different, but similar in Focals characteristics. Once hearing them after about 10 different other pairs. I decided they were the ones for me. There was some hesitation, thinking maybe I was crazy not changing it up. Though I was told Focal designed the Spectral 40’s to sound more Rock n roll,  like speakers from the past still with great detail. So anyway that’s what I chose. They haven’t arrived yet, and was able to get a nice discount them. Msrp 10k. I suggest you go give them a listen. Hood luck with your search. 
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