A pragmatic view of cartridge expenses / many questions


Trying to see what your thoughts are on cartridge expenses? Do you buy cartridges and replace or retip after it’s worn? Cartridges are like tires for cars in some ways. You have to replace the tires after they wear out.

If you own an ultra expensive cartridge, let’s say, over 7k, is that your main spinner? Do you do a factory retip at costs exceeding thousands? Do some of you who own high cost cartridges use them only for special occasions, similar to drinking Dom Perigon for some special event, and use a normal not so exotic cartridge for regular day to day use and perhaps non-audiophile records.
I am sure each of us have our own price threshold and thoughts of high end cartridges. I only said 7k, because that seems to me a fair price point to describe a very expensive cartridge.

My thoughts are that having a few normally priced cartridges around is a good thing, due to the wear and tear, and replacing or retippimg would also be less costly. I do lust after some high end cartridges and if I do obtain one, my philosophy would be as described above. Enjoy for special occasions, and use a less costly for normal day to day listens. Geez, it feels like we are trying to separate our car cruises from a sports car feel to a luxury limo ride feel, in some ways. 
What’s your opinion on expendability of cartridges?
audioquest4life
Who would have thought that offering a suggestion to a OP, would have resulted in my previous posts having snippets of previous supplied information being Cherry Picked and used as a foundation for a challenge on my serious lack of knowledge for knowledge of what a HiFi System should be.
I do have a Idler Drive TT, it is used for about 10 Hours a year in my system, but is a TT I am happy to take to other Individuals Premises,
so they can be introduced to and audition a Idler Drive in their Systems,
it is interesting how some who have had the experience, had sought out a Idler Drive following such a social get together of a few enthusiasts.

If I were to interpret a previous comment about my Idler Drive that is owned, it is a pleasure that there are enthusiasts who when experiencing a Idler Drive for their first time are able to enjoy a TT that is off a place of 'mediocrity and average'.
 
For the record, my daily in use TT is not a Idler Drive.
 
I put my hands up, I don't do Technical Analysis, like the multiples of other enthusiasts who don't either, but who still appear to achieve a Sound Quality from their Systems that they are finding very satisfying.

I am no different, as I have entrusted myself to those much more knowledgeable than myself, being reliant on their Professionalism and Skills, with the outcome being that I have produced my system to suit my preferences over many years,  and as a result, own one that is in use regularly and thoroughly enjoyed by myself and all who visit to audition it.
As the most important part of listening to music for me is the Social Aspect, I like to share in listening to recorded music with friends, in the same manner I would at a live event.
I make the time to listen to music  alone when I am trialling a device or a component, get a new album, or needing a Time Out, from that point on the music is a background music or part of a evening with my Wife,
or a dedicated session to listen tom the System with invited guests.   

As I am also able to visit HiFi enthusiasts at their own premises, due to belonging to a 'Enthusiasts  Group' and a Forum where invites are offered to members, these opportunities are a plus to my support for creating social and shared interest HiFi meet Ups.
This will also be very beneficial to me to keep my mind broadened and not insular when it comes to experiencing HiFi.
There are still times that I will visit a retail premises, especially ones that have very expensive devices for audition, as this is the level of replay that I aspire to.
I ensure my experience does not keep me insular in my HiFi experiences
and get great pleasure in experiencing the works of others.

I am totally confident there are numerous devices I have had the opportunity to audition, that have measured correctly in every parameter,
but I was not perceiving the device as a device to be aspired to by myself.

My system is tuned to me, and that is all that matters, even with a System that in my view is in a place that is totally satisfying to myself and that has made a very good impression on those who have visited to audition it,
I am still happy to learn and see what is available at the different interfaces that are easily accessible. 

Is it necessary for there being requests made for a need to supply measurements to confirm that a Perceived Improvement in SQ has a validity.
Does a Person need to supply a measurement to reinforce the experience, that shows how when they exchanged a few Cap's and Resistors,  a unimproved or improvement was discovered in a Perceived Sound ?
Does a Person need to supply a measurement to reinforce the experience, that when they exchanged a ABEC 7 bearing to a ABEC 9 bearing and replaced the Tonearm Internal wire, there was a
unimproved or improvement in the Perceived Sound Quality. 
 
Are measurements required to support a exercise in
Tube Rolling NOS vs Modern Tubes, that ended up with a reduction from Six Matched different Brand Pairs, down to two types remaining as being strong contenders, those being a Matched Pair of Mullard ECC83 Tubes, that after careful consideration were outperformed to my Perception by a Matched Pair  Mullard CV4004 M8137, which have remained in the device.
 The same as stated above applies to any experiences being undertaken,
if there was a exercise in trialling,
NOS vs Modern Tube Rolling of 6SN7 and ECC88/E88CC.
Does it require a presentation of measurements to convince others that the preferred selection to be used was the correct choice for the individual ? 


What 'in my view' matters is how the individual exposing themselves to the experience is Perceiving the Sound Quality, as they are the individuals who are unique in their preferences and will be living with their choices when made
The more a individual has made the efforts to have a broad experience of HiFi Devices and Systems, the more clear they will be in what they are hoping to gain from their choices being made with their budget constraints.

As said, I do support a Social Element of being involved with HiFi.
Not too long ago, I chose to attend a Enthusiast Event, where the Exhibitors Systems are brought to the venue and put on display for the Entry Fee Paying Visitors to be able to Audition.
At the above event, there where 500 Visitors who Paid a £20 Entrance Fee.
After a period of time from the off set my Exhibit Room was full and I could not manage all the requests for individuals selections of music to be replayed.
There was a need to invite individuals back to receive their opportunity.
The available seats were never empty between 10.00am and 16.00pm,
there was very limited standing space, and there was a queue in the corridor outside.
This was not expected by myself, but the rapport and enthusiasm and communication taking place was overwhelming and thoroughly enjoyable.

The experience of being openly informed in the room by the Visitors that in their opinion the System being experienced was the best in show,
was again for me a totally unexpected happening, I genuinely thought I was going to be meeting a steady trickle of Visitors.
 
How many of my visitors that openly declare, that when at my home my system is delivering in a very special way, to date all.
At a Exhibition where 50 Systems that are owned by enthusiasts, and are put out for Audition by 500 Visitors, I do not know how many of those 500 visitors listened to my system, but I know how busy my Exhibit Room was.
How many of those visitors was  impressed with my System,
I do not know ?
What is known is that there was a 'Rebuilt Cartridge' being used, it had no usage by myself, as it was to be set up on the TT by a friend when at the Exhibition, at the commencement of it being used the
Rebuilt Cartridge had approximately 20 Hours usage on it,
as a result of the rebuild Technicians Testing. 

I am usually extending and broadening my own personal experience with HiFi and have used this experience to help with my choices I have made for my Systems Devices, as well as selected Interface components.
On the Day I chose to Extend and Broaden the experience of my System by introducing it to many other individuals,  that decision and experience may over time prove be my most memorable day ever in being a
HiFi Enthusiast.   

I really don't feel the need to supply a Trio of Cartridges Brands or a Selection of Rarely used Materials, that a Marketing Department and
HiFi Reviewer will refer to as a 'Exotic Material'. 

To be helpful though to those who might be interested,
If there is a interest showing for some visiting this thread for gathering knowledge about Cartridge Development and
Modern Design Conceptions as a result of the availability of materials that will support the design,
then the Mutech Hyabusa will fit into this role in my opinion.
       
Back in 2003 at a show in London (Heathrow/Novotel) me and some friends got to hear a very expensive turntable set up which featured a £5k cartridge.

I can't recall the names, perhaps my friends could, but it did feature a huge, somewhat ridiculously deep 6-8 inch platter and the motor assembly was attached by a long thin belt driven by a motor assembly several inches removed.

It would have been funny of someone had enquired about a dust cover or potential hazards of combining audiophile pleasure and alcohol with such a Heath-Robinson contraption.

But no one dared to disturb the demonstrators rock hard demeanor..

Nevertheless, it was still a memorable occasion as it was the first time I got to hear the Avantgarde Trios. Very impressive they were too.

Nonetheless, the thing that sticks in the memory was the attitude of the man supposedly demonstrating the turntable. He was quite standoffish and seemingly very reluctant to play any of his prized 50s Jazz vinyl.  Finally he reluctantly agreed to play one of his records but not before complaining that the cost of his cartridge resulted in about £5 of stylus wear each time he played a record.

Needless to say, all of this intensity did not create a very good impression.

Isn't this hobby supposed to be about enjoyment? Isn't it supposed to be fun?
Why should we have to worry and stress about the cost of cartridge (or even vinyl) wear when we're looking to relax.

As the OP said, 

'My thoughts are that having a few normally priced cartridges around is a good thing, due to the wear and tear, and replacing or retipping would also be less costly.'

I could not agree more, and this is the point where I would personally draw the line.


Nagoaka MP-200
HiViNyws channel June 2018.

https://youtu.be/E4G7hSUQoOc
Interesting, One of my early ventures over a few years, when I started my earliest investigations into building my System by visiting places beyond the High Street was at the Ramada Heathrow Show.

A man who was very instrumental from this Era, in introducing me to what a System can sound like when selected properly was Luigi who worked at HiFi Confidential in Victoria.
He knew I had the Bug and was of little means to spend on the equipment he had for sale.
That didn't stop him from allowing me to experience his Systems over a few year period. 
Who knows that might be where the Social Side of the experience was born for me.
  
Dear @pindac : "  Idler Drive for their first time are able to enjoy a TT that is off a place of 'mediocrity and average... "

I'm not refering that idler drive TT are in the mediocity/average land because exist models that are really at the top as any BD or DD TT.

Exist TT DD/BD/ID models that stay in the mediocity/average place.

Funny because I experienced in the show rooms of a high end dealer at San Diego a very well received critics by the high end audiophiles that attended to the presentation/audiotining of my Essential 3160 self (with a friend. ) designed phonolinepreamp.

@cd318 : "  Isn't this hobby supposed to be about enjoyment?  "

sure it's but things are that exist diferrent quality levels of enjoyment through room/system listen experiences.

Any true MUSIC lover can enjoy and has fun listening MUSIC through a walkman but that kind of enjoyment is different to the kind and levels of enjoyment you can have at your place and at your place what determines the true level of enjoyment is the true quality levels of your room/system.

Some audiophiles just want and like to listen music and more than that I can say to listen " sound " and that's all ( and is fine because that's what they are looking for. ) when I want to listen MUSIC as nearer to the recording and to the live MUSIC event I can achieve.

R.


@pindac,

'Interesting, One of my early ventures over a few years, when I started my earliest investigations into building my System by visiting places beyond the High Street was at the Ramada Heathrow Show.'


I've got a feeling I also went to that one, if it was the 1998 show!  I think we had to catch a special tube train to get there as there had been a problem on the underground that Saturday.

Ken Kessler gave a lecture that day and I remember being surprised by how much more erudite and learned he appeared to be than the persona he adopted in his magazine columns for Hi-Fi News and Record Review.

Yes, a lot of the pleasure in this hobby comes from the social side with some of the warmest people you could hope to meet.

Only last year at the Leamington Spa show there was a guy who had restored and rebuilt some vintage reel to reel decks. He obviously knew his stuff but it was wonderful the way he was willing to share his time and knowledge with us, who barely knew how to operate them.

And it's good to see that Ken's still going strong. From his reference system, he seems unusually fond of the London Decca cartridges.

https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/international/soundstage-uk/1440-what-is-your-current-refer...