Thiel Owners

I’ve never heard ATC. Maybe they’re onto something? But I’m skeptical. As Tom Thiel wrote, the steep filter lets you operate a driver in the range of pistonic behavior. This is *highly* desirable (and also requires diaphragm material up to the task). But this throws off phase coherence. There is no free lunch. If there were, all designers would hone in on the same design.

Thiel Audio placed phase and time coherence as a top priority. The downside is that the slow rolloff may not sufficiently suppress the inevitable break up modes. As I’ve written in this thread, I think Jim Thiel made some of the best drivers around. The diaphragms are light and rigid and the break up modes are out of the "main" region covered by each driver. Even at that, some may consider the break up modes insufficiently suppressed by a 6dB filter. Richard Vandersteen seems to have taken this even farther with his carbon/balsa drivers but you need some serious coin to move up to those. The carbon midrange is available only in the 5 Carbon ($30+K) and 7 models ($60+K).

IMO, most of the newer Thiels get it right in terms of balancing phase alignment and pistonic behavior (I’ve heard CS2.4, 3.7 and 7.2 but not earlier models). My ears tell me so, and Soundstage’s measurements of the CS2.4 confirm "very low" distortion despite the 1st order filters. Nothing is perfect but I think Thiel gets you most of the way there and at an affordable price.

That said, if ATC or others have figured out how to maintain phase alignment while also optimizing pistonic behavior I’m happy to learn! I'm not an audio engineer, either. More of a dork with a soldering gun :)

Happy Friday- All.

Most folks agree that DSP is the future. The DEQX site is very impressive as are their reviews. The cost do "do it" actively and especially digitally is a small fraction of analog costs. And precision can be had. I note that ATC gives no phase spec, nor do I see relevant claims from Lyngdorf, but I haven't looked very hard. DEQX may really be doing it. If I were starting a company today, I certainly wouldn't be going all analog/passive! When I find time I'll share the Lexus / Thiel story.

^You’ve piqued my curiosity.

In the late 80s Toyota was building their Georgetown Camry plant and Thiel, IBM, Trane, Square D and Toyota were core members of the University of Kentucky's Advanced Engineering Initiative. What a trip. Also, the CS5 was a big deal in Japan. The chair of the AEI stirred the pot and we began exploring with Toyota a premium audio system for the not-yet-introduced Lexus. Their key people, including Mr. Toyoda, visited our plant, and we developed a proposal. Jim insisted that the best solution was integrated amp / speakers. Toyoda wanted Thiel speakers under the Mark Levinson Premium Audio System umbrella.

The project could have put us in the big-leagues, but the costs and risks of development were beyond our capacity. In fact, we were developing new products at break-neck speed and were production self-limited at 30% year on year growth with qualified dealers waiting in the wings . We couldn't handle it, even if Toyota were interested in our integrated solution proposal.

After Thiel Audio, I was involved as a consultant in a couple of Japanese  co-development ventures, and am confident that we made the right decision. Big Japanese corporations are a different animal than small American technology companies.