Tend to agree with parsons, not sure why the tube compliment in the a/b test will not be the same. Why would you want to have that variant enter into the equation and possibly bias the outcome given what folks familiarity, likes, etc may be with one tube type or the other.
Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp
Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.
During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.
My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.
My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.
I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.
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jbhiller - Icon has been selling rebranded Chinese amps for a long time, not sure if that has changed. I tried one when I was living in the UK and it was reliable, but let down by very cheap output transformers giving it a lightweight sound. It was about 11 years ago, so things may have changed since then. It was a 40 x 40 watt push pull EL34 design based loosely on a Dynaco. If I recall correctly it used cathode bias, making the power output spec a little ambitious. It got solidly spanked by a very cheap Yarland push pull EL84 amp (the same amp that Sophia sells as the Baby - although they may use slightly better parts). |
Kevin is just plain wrong-amps are at their heart the simplest of electronics- not preamps. Amps do nothing more than regulate the energy coming out of your wall. The opposite is true. Read everything I've said and I can tell you that you can make a DECENT tube preamp for $1500 that sounds damn good. Cary made one called the AE-3DJH and it benched better than most. Tube preamps are SIMPLE and that's why manufacturers are over-charging customers with big empty boxes. Now you get to the details. What kind of regulation, rectifying the AC, hybrid or not, dual mono. But I'll be the first to admit big diminishing returns and that's exactly why doing a level matched A/B will be less telling. Tube amps are completely different, and it's harder to cheat. The differences are much greater between the good and bad. And they can be bucks up and bad. Amps don't "regulate power from the wall." Output transformers are the key, and they are half art, half science. And expensive....which is why companies looking to maximize profit use cheap (and small) power AND output transformers. They are the single largest cost. As to the A/B test, if you want double blind I can try to hide the wires. I would expect the more expensive amp to benefit from NOT being double blind, as people will be impressed. As to which tubes, the idea is to compare stock with stock. I'm not going to upgrade the tubes on the PrimaLuna. It negates what this is about. Would the PrimaLuna benefit from dropping in $400 worth of KT150's? I suppose. But what good does that do? It muddies the water. |
From a dealer's perspective, I get your point. If you believe the majority of folks would prefer the PL as stock over the ARC as stock, stock is how you are going to sell the PL to them, so it benefits your case for PL if they do prefer the PL "stock" sound (which is obviously your prediction, or I doubt you'd be going through the hassle). Then you don't have to add "...if you put KT150s in..." when you tell the story later on. Makes sense. |
Kevin you keep bringing up the Cary AE-3DJH. Since when was it ever a standard-bearer? Never. It was never more than a very nice preamp FOR THE PRICE. http://www.stereomojo.com/AES%20Super%20Amp%20and%20AE-3%20preamplifier%20review/AESSuperAmpMk2andAE... Amplifiers are falsely believed to be capable of storing and unleashing massive amounts of power if built like tanks when in fact they can only control (regulate) the power available from the wall. Amplifiers should be thought of as faucets and not as water towers. Preamps have the task of handling low level signal without degrading it. This is much more difficult to implement at a superb level than the task at hand for an amp-regulating AC to DC. As someone else has pointed out, PL has taken traditional but dated basic circuit designs, added some user-friendly features, built them to tank-like standards, and at great prices. All fantastic stuff, but please don't tell me or anyone that any single PL pieces bests any $25,000 piece. Maybe they are better than a very few ridiculously overpriced mediocre pieces of gear but those pieces are doomed to fail in the marketplace. Why take a good thing and depart from the real to the absurd? |
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