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Changed amps - center image moved

I recently changed amplifiers from TRL Samson (monos) to Maker Audio Ref 2A stereo amp.  Both amps are superb but using the same associated equipment (DAC preamp, sources, speakers) my center image changed significantly.  I did go from single ended to balanced interconnects.  The Maker has a much wider image (well beyond outside of speaker but the center image is diffuse (not specific).  Also, with the Maker amp, more sound comes directly from the speaker (very little w the Samsons).  The TRL Samsons had a specific center image but more narrow width (very little outside of speaker).   In a perfect world, I would have the specific center image plus the ultra wide space.  Anyone experienced a similar situation and how (were) you able to optimize.  Don't get me wrong though, the Maker is fabulous in every aspect....killer detail without edginess, dynamics that are breathtaking.

Just trying to figure ways to re-attain the center image specificity.  Suggestions?


jeffga
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
A reversal of polarity between XLR pins 2 and 3 at some point in the signal path would result in diffuse imaging if and only if it occurred in one channel, not both. Presumably a component design in which pin 3 is the non-inverted signal and pin 2 the inverted signal (which is the opposite of the usual convention in the USA and various other countries) would do that in both channels.

Also, given the reference in the OP to excellent sonics (which would certainly be compromised big-time if a polarity reversal was present in one channel), and the level of sophistication that a user of a Maker Audio product can be presumed to have, I would expect that a polarity reversal in one channel is unlikely to be the cause.

Jeffga, what preamp and what speakers are you using? And is there a subwoofer in the system?

Regards,
-- Al
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grannyring
6,438 posts
 
Check your speaker cables for polarity Jeff. Sounds like a polarity issue. The XLR pins also....may be the issue.
seikosha
218 posts
 
Okay, I often see people advising folks to check polarity when something is wrong with imaging and bass and I have to ask; is it that hard for some people to recognize that their speakers are out of phase?  I swap equipment in and out of my system frequently and occasionally I do hook my speakers up wrong, but I can immediately tell that the system is out of phase before I even get back to my listening chair.  It's a very distinct and immediately recognizable sound.  Do others really have a hard time hearing this?

jeffga OP
89 posts
 
Thanks everyone!  The XLR cables are from Grover Huffman (very good cables).  I am using a ThetaGen VIII DAC (latest) using its internal preamp.  Speakers are GR Research Alpha LS (highly modded), speaker cables are Amadi's.   Again, the only two things that changed are the amp and going to balanced IC's.  All good suggestions!  Will try the polarity on speaker cables, speaker placement (including toe-in).  I cannot go back to the RCA IC's yet as the Maker amp is XLR input (only) -- however, I have an adapter shipping to me so I can try going back to the previous RCA cables.  Again, the Maker amp does everything great, just wanting a more specific center image. 
almarg's avatar
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almarg
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I have an adapter shipping to me so I can try going back to the previous RCA cables.
I don’t know whether or not this may be applicable to your Maker Audio amplifier, but I’ll mention that there are some amps having only XLR input connectors which will not work properly when provided with single-ended signals via adapters. Certain Audio Research models for example, which have balanced internal signal paths and provide only XLR inputs, are designed such that if they are provided with single-ended inputs half of their balanced signal path will not receive a signal. Resulting in **greatly** reduced power capability as well as some sonic degradation.

You might want to ask Mr. Maker or one of his associates if that concern applies in this case.

A single-ended signal can be converted to a true balanced pair of signals with a device such as a Jensen Transformer (~ $300) or an SMc Audio Flex-Connect ($1895).

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al


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