I have heard the Escalante Design Pinyons both with, and without a subwoofer. I actually have a pair in one of my systems. The overall sound is better than the Talons (not surprising, since they were designed by the same person - but the Pinyons represent a significant refinement in the sound from the earlier speaker), and there is no boom or 'overload' at the bass frequencies. The transparency is first rate, and there is an abundance of detail as well. Imaging is excellent, but to me, the dynamic range and lack of compression exhibited by the Pinyons really put the icing on the cake. If you can find a used pair within your budget, do so.