music , mind , thought and emotion


There is not a society on this planet, nor probably ever has been, which is without some form of musical expression, often closely linked with rythm and dance. My question is less concentrated on the latter two however.
What I am pondering boils down to:
What is music and what does it do to us
Why do we differentiate music from random noise so clearly and yet can pick up certain samples within that noise as musical.
By listening to music, we find some perhaps interesting, some which we would call musical. What differentiates "musical music" from "ordinary music" and this again from "noise"?
In a more general sense again:
If music has impact on us, what is the nature of our receptors for it. Or better: Who, what are we, that music can do to us what it does?
What would be the nature of a system, which practically all of us would agree upon, that it imparts musicality best?
And finally, if such a sytem would exist, can this quality be measured?
detlof
One thing the always amazes me is that there are a few groups that consider music and dancing "sinful". The groups that come to mind are sects of Christianity and Islam. Can anyone explain the rationale behind these beliefs?
I personally believe that music and art are achievements of mankind.
Bin
One of the greatest threads with some of the greatest people. I love and miss your passion! Where have you all gone?
You echo my occasional nostalgic musings! I am Detlof's old thread is back again (it would be even nicer if he were back, too).

Rja: the "sinful" aspect relates to relaxation and the loss of control -- which, in the minds of some, may eventually lead to terrible things: boy meets girl and then something happens without prior consent by the powers that be (were). Don't forget too, that some dancing is very expressive erotically, and most traditional dancing is a collective affair: i.e. people being together and gesturing/moving freely, as evidenced by the "unusual" movement dancing requires. Unusual because we don't usually act this way (at a job interview, for example). You move your body... very suggestive! Cheers
Gregm; You are one of the ones I was talking about. There are still some around worth reading but so many seem to have gone from Audiogon. I could start to list them but it would be so long it would just depress me.... We go back a long way here so I know you know what I mean. Maybe it would be enlightning to do a thread listing some of the posters who made this site a part of their lives for a time and who have long since disappeared. Would be great just to know that they are slill enjoying music and are ok.
Bin, the passion is still there, but as the years pass by, you learn to rather cherish quietly, privately, because you've learnt, that words fall short to describe what music can do to and for you. It is in the exuberance of discovery that you speak out, share and spread the word. Later, perhaps in the winter of your years your ears may fail you, but not your spirit, because finely honed through time and experience, music touches you ever more deeply, so deep sometimes, that you know that words fail you and you don't even try to find them. You're grateful, that's all, because in those moments of being enthralled, you're joined with something which is bigger than just your ego. It is in those moments, that you forget your rig, you forget what you know about the composer and what you might know of theory of music and all that noise your brain generally produces, called thoughts, just abates. You're transported to another plane, which sometimes may enfold you in an all encompassing feeling of bliss, which may only last a split second but will reverberate in you for a long time. Or laughter will come up, awe, sadness, whatever you like. The point is, you're being moved, because the composer or the interpreters of his music have touched upon something, which is universal, belongs to all humanity and for a moment you are enjoined within this, become part of it. This is also, why some forms of music are sometimes the best remedy against loneliness, despair and depression, because it can sometimes transport you beyond and outside of your everyday-self. And yes, Rja, I think Greg has made an excellent point as he usually does and I could not agree more. Indeed the effect of music, as I have tried to point out, can make you transcend your usual self. It can make you wild, drive you crazy, even bring you close to what might be experienced as the godhead. Organised religion, churches of whatever denomination , do not like that, would call it heretic,ostracise it, burn it at the stake, call it dangerous and a deviation because it cannot be controlled, is too "private" and mostly not in accordance with the official interpretation of what is "holy" and what is not. This is of course not true within every "church". Bach has written wonderful and moving church music, congregations sing, wonderful requiems exist and are performed in churches. The Kantor is an important figure in Jewish liturgy and the better his voice, the more a feeling content can be added and experienced around the ancient words he is using. It is probably those forms of religious practice, which stick to a very strict and rigid interpretation of whatever it is concieved as holy and contained in WORDS, that abhorr not only symbols and imagery, but especially music, because of its inherent possibility to transport you into another realm, where words lose their meaning and their power and it is though WORDS again, which tell you of the consequences of not adhering to whatever is seen as the straight and narrow that preachers try to control their flock and of the rewards you'll get in the here and the beyond if you stick to the rules. As Greg so rightly points out, the effect that music can have on some people, lies in the fact, that rules, which by their very nature are always collective and are WORDED, might lose their grip on you and you could break free of them for better or for worse and might in sometimes decisive moments for your life, suddenly land in another realm, where words fail you and lose their power. Many organised forms of very strictly practised religion fear that like the devil and would also call it just that.
Detlof bemones the paucity of words;, yet his article above (or "post", if you will) manages to be very direct, explicit and very important.

*Explicit and important, because it can be read independently (hence my use of the word "article") and retain its full potency;

*Direct and important as well WITHIN the context of discussions dedicated to music and audiophile subjects.

But we rarely combine music and its universal powers and the simple subject of reproducing music, in a way that these become interdependent, and the former defines the latter.

Reading carefully however, the pointers are there for those that wish to acknowledge them (others will see these too, but will chose to ignore): personally relate to the subject of music; allow yourself the freedom from personally induced noise i.e. rules & regulations contained in our brain. Let me call this, "subjective distortion" -SD- products.

As Detlof implies, this transcendence may happen when one is physically alone -- and when it does because we allow it, we are in communion with everyone. As we all suspect, being in company means we are exclusively with that company; when alone and in private, one is with potentially with everyone.

Needless to say, the discussions on reproduction systems in relation to music, should start with a defined principle and free from SD. Then, we trickle down to analyses of the parts (what is the "best..." etc, "the bass" the "mid", the amp, etc, etc) -- not the other way round. But that would be the subject of another thread.