high-end vs. ultra high-end amplifiers

Positioning and cost are significant factors. Larger companies (ML, Krell, etc) cater to a large part of our small hi-end market and have to sell a minimum volume in order to break-even. Their positioning is "hi-end" but they have to keep market-share in order to survive. So, some compromises must be made in order to price their products within the boundaries of their target market.

FM Acoustics, for example, keeps a small production capacity, sports prices that START where others stop, and, being a small-scale producer doesn't need to support large sales. So they take less head of design&production cost; whatever the asking price, they expect that their small sales volume target will be met whatever happens. Sales at their level, they believe, are inelastic. Their positioning is "top end".

More importantly, these so called "ultra" products, can only be justified as a purchase by a small part of the market: those that have the ancilliary equip to fully enjoy differences in sonic performance (such as these differences may be). Again, Krell etc, must play for market share, so sales volume and marketing are prime considerations, they have to cater to many who, a) can afford the asking price and b) will be aware of a "difference" by using this product with their GEAR -- what Krell etc expect that gear to be (upper-mid level hi-end, usually).

As to design: there is nothing to support (IM knowledge) that bigger Cos cannot design... rather, they target the best sonic result within given retail price constraints. The effort goes there.

I'm willing to bet, ( this would be a great test/demonstration) that my integrated (YBA Passion) if it was AB'd with the very very top amps, in a BLIND FOLD test, would hold it's own. Not only mine, but many other killer $5000 amps, as well. Nobody in the reviewing industry, wants to mess with blind tests. There's huge visual, psychological, placebic, and a host of other factors in this audio kingdom, as there are in many other fields. The human factor is limitless in its' possibilities/perceptions. Remember, genius has its limitations, but ignorance is limitless.

again and again... the sounds you get from an amp, being SS or tube is often distinguished by its capability, components and application. Its a known fact that some to many tube amps sound so lush and detailed to the point I said while listening "this is the smooothest sound I have ever heard" The combo were reference VAC amps with Pipedream speakers. However, someone took that 10:00PM jazz off and put something on with smack.. I said while listening " Sounds weak and no slamm or punch...again..it really needs to be a fit.. Bryston for example have one of the LOWEST noisefloor level I ever heard.

Levinson sound which I have had for a few years till recently are often catagorized as clinical and very very focused.. the Reference #33s are so excellent when matched with the proper speaker and componment..Recently my dealer told me that he is moving away from ML and going to Spectral. both oozzing high end hand made quality.. play a track from a CD then insert a amp at half the price of those 2..at first you will hear a difference that is perhaps neglegable.. over time..it will become more and more clearer of what certain hign amps are capable of doing..To quote bundus above (I think) ya get what ya pay for ..most of the time.. At the end, if 10% better performance is worth the extra 50% cost(and to many, many,many it is)and you get the sound hat ya want.. Your ML/Spectral is a great investment.

thanks

Matt

How do you measure 10% better sound? I do know what you're saying, but it's just not quantifiable. Can't it be, 10% better sound at 5 to 10 times the cost? That's more like what we're talking about here.

Nice to know you are not falling prey to market segmenting, to science, to bang-for-the-buck, to dinking-by-the-label, to the great pastime of record book thinking, to one-upmanship, to attempting to isolate one component in a chain and declaring it superior in every way to all others of its type, to negative bias against larger established companies, to positive bias in favour of small cottage industry builders, to audio jewellery, to equating everything that goes into a product with mo' better sound, to assuming everyone will just go along with your premise, to soliciting answers from the horses mouth (they should tell you they are smarter, more honest, have better hearing and more taste than any other builder, that they alone can defy physics and that they have arcane knowledge not possessed by other manufacturers and that you are in good hands with Allstate) and to being so earnest in wanting to know what in the physical world they do to make the sound so good. This question basically will have the folks lining up on either side of the great divide we have all come to know and love: magic vs. science, objective vs. subjective, you know. Look, if you think, hear and feel in your heart that any product, be it a power amp, preamp, source, cable or speaker, or any tweak, be it bubblegum, bubble pack, cones, spheres, etc, sound better, don't ask any further questions. You have found IT, and once you have found IT, everything else becomes irrelevant, especially explanations having to do with the physical world. I second the posters who have basically asked that you go ever your premise first. And thank TWL for, yet again, proving that the mental sampling rate of non-believers in the GREAT SUBJECTIVE AUDIOPHILE THING is too low. A couple of questions before I go: how high can prices go? How many times can the word "ULTRA" be added as a prefix to a newly established market segment in order to pick the pockets of the insecure?