Hi Comaris,
I've been using a UNIverse since serial #1 arrived in the US. Welcome to the club!
VTF
Once you're near the VTF sweet spot, a UNIverse will respond quite audibly to changes of .01 or .02g. You must fine tune by ear to get the most from this cartridge, often on a daily basis depending on the weather. If you just pick a number like 1.80 or 1.90 and then set and forget, you'll never hear what the cartridge can do.
Fortunately, finding a UNIverse's VTF sweet spot is pretty simple:
1. Choose a few dynamic, difficult to track passages.
2. Set antiskating to zero.
3. Play the passage and listen for mistracking (slight fuzziness in the HF's just before actual static-like breakup)
4. If you don't hear mistracking, reduce VTF in .05g steps until you do. That VTF is your "mistracking point".
5. Now add a TINY amount of anti-skating. You need far less than the normally expected amount. Use just enough to prevent R channel mistracking on difficult passages. Any more antiskating will smother the life out of the music.
I've had 12 UNIverses in my system. Their individual mistracking points varied but their sweet zones were invariably .02-.04g above their mistracking point. In this they were perfectly consistent.
Once you find YOUR mistracking point, move VTF upward in .01-.02g steps (yes, you must be this exact). You'll hear the HF fuzziness clean up and then the bass will firm up. That's where you should play, at least for today. If you go much higher the HF's will go dull and the music will lose its pace and "jump". Remember, this VTF sweet zone is VERY narrow and it may change tomorrow. Learn what to listen for and you'll get maximum performance and satisfaction from this amazing cartridge.
VTA
Start with the ridge near the bottom of the cartridge body level (don't level the tonearm, that's irrelevant). Adjust by ear from there.
What you're listening for with VTA is the optimum integration of musical fundamentals with harmonics. If VTA is too high the HF overtones will come in "too early". You'll hear the zing of a cymbal almost before you hear the tap. If VTA is too low the HF's will come in too late or be smothered by the decay of the fundamental. The cymbal hit will sound dull or the tap and zing will sound like they came from different instruments.
Hope that helps. Enjoy!
Doug
P.S. If your tonearm doesn't have VTF fine-tuning, get yourself some O-rings that fit the ends stub. Sliding one or more O-rings onto the end stub lets you reduce VTF in .01-.03g increments without moving the counterweight.
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Tvad,
I'm pretty sure this VTF method would apply to any ZYX. We haven't used a Yatra but it worked for the Airy 2, Airy 3, Atmos and an unreleased model we once previewed for Mehran. None of these is as sensitive/responsive to tiny VTF changes as a UNIverse, but their the sweet zone was always just above the mistracking point.
This method also worked well with a friend's Lyra Olympos, another superbly sensitive cartridge in the UNIverse's class. It worked fairly well with our Shelter 901, a very different cartridge from any ZYX. But it isn't universal, some cartridges have a wide gap between their mistracking point and their sonic sweet zone or are less sensitive to VTF in general. Most inexpensive MM's don't have the resolution to distinguish .01g changes, or even .1g changes.
We discovered this method simply by trial and error. With so many cartridges moving on and off our tonearm the concepts eventually coalesced from all the repetition.
The reason it works is the same reason minimal anti-skating works: some suspensions are so responsive that the minimal amount of downforce AND sideforce consistent with good tracking is all that's needed. Additional external force applied to the cantilever-suspension interface just smothers responsiveness.
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Doug, are you still calling minimal anti-skating on the Triplanar 5 O-rings? I am using 1.95 VTF. Anything below and you can hear it. On my lesser ZYX, I run it at 1.86 =/-.01. Much less and there added sibilance and much more is a bit congested. I'm responding to Marisplunge, Dgad and Mt10425 together because they're all talking about, "Where do you play right now?" A funny thing happened with our UNIverse this summer. Until then both our UNIverses (we're on #2) performed best in a VTF range between 1.90g (in the summer) and 2.15g (in the winter). Our changeable climate causes changes in any cartridge and that's been the range for the UNIverses. With anti-skating we were always between 4 and 6 O-rings, varying with VTF and also with individual LP's. This June or July the mistracking point suddenly began dropping and the sweet spot dropped right along with it. Last year if I'd tried to play a record below 1.90 I'd have gotten mistracking for sure. Yet all of a sudden I found myself using VTF's of 1.85, 1.80, 1.75 and even 1.70! I was also able to reduce antiskating to 3 O-rings, then 2. What's going on?! The cartridge has 1,000+ hours on it and all of a sudden it's breaking in? I guess that's possible. In June we switched to AIVS from another cleaning fluid that left a lubricant film in the grooves. This film acted as a shock absorber for the stylus. Since the stylus wasn't reaching full extension (and it wasn't, our dynamics with AIVS are hugely improved) the suspension wasn't being fully excercised. I think getting the grooves truly clean has finally allowed our cartridge to fully break in. Last night, despite temps that would have required 2.00g and 5-6 O-rings a year ago, I played fairly dynamic LP's successfully (gloriously) at 1.65g of VTF and just 1 O-ring! When we played one of our toughest tracking LP's (Ashkenazy/Beethoven sonata #1/London) I finally had to use a bit more force. I moved VTF "up" to 1.68g and used 2 O-rings for antiskating. Result? The best tracking and playing performance we've ever had on this LP. So, if your records are really clean then at some point in your ZYX's life it may start tracking better at lower VTF's and with less antiskating than you've come to expect. The sonic result is a further improvement, so we fairies all have to stay on our toes to balance on that pin! ;-) |
Markd51,
My opinion (nothing more) is that the old "centering the coils in the magnetic field" concept is not the whole story with VTF. Certainly that's important, but when we get down to changes of .01g it doesn't seem plausible (to me) that this is the whole story.
I believe these tiny adjustments are about minimizing the pressure between cantilever and suspension. We must allow the cantilever maximum freedom to respond to groove modulations, consistent with good tracking of course. This is what micro VTF adjustment "sounds" like to us anyway.
There's corroboration in the fact that minimal anti-skating has similar sonic effects. Excessive A/S sounds almost exactly like excessive VTF: smothered highs, slowed transients and dull, lifeless pacing. These effects seem consistent with an over-damped cantilever.
SirSpeedy,
Sorry about the shopping. I hope it wasn't at 4AM!
The ZYX 4D is an international market cartridge based on the Atmos (which is sold mostly in the US). You can read about the Atmos amongst my reviews if it beats doing more shopping! I know a UK dealer who just replaced a Lyra Skala with a 4D. To say he was bowled over would be an understatement. He emailed me out of the blue saying, "Now I understand what you've been talking about with ZYX. I'm going to sell a bunch of these and my customers will love me."
The 4D/Atmos won't replace the UNIverse because it's different but not necessarily better. The open sides give it more macro-dynamic punch and raw drive than a UNIverse, but it loses a step in low level detail, speed, agility and it has a trace more overhang. The Atmos is an extraordinary rock cartridge, probably the best I've heard. The UNIverse is still better for classical and other acoustic instruments, provided you're willing to keep up with the insane fine tuning like we're discussing on this thread.
Mariasplunge,
The Atmos is slightly easier to dial in than a UNIverse but the methods are the same. It responds similarly but its window of acceptable VTF is a bit wider and its performance curve a bit flatter. If you're off a bit the falloff in performance is not as drastic as with a UNIverse. OTOH, the peak of performance when everything's right doesn't soar quite as high.
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P.S. to Sir S,
Congrats on ordering the Phantom! I predict a great leap forward. :-)
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Thanks for the common sense post, Dan - as usual. You described what we're seeking to reproduce very well. It's wise to point out that not everyone shares the same priorities.
If your interests don't gravitate toward the sound of acoustic instruments and skilled vocalists presented without electronic intervention, then this degree of craziness may not repay the time and effort. If you don't give a %@#&! about the sound of a three-manual harpsichord vs. a single-string clavichord or whether Emma Kirkby sounds as lifelike as possible, forget most of the above!
Aside from the time it takes, playing as we do involves some risk to your vinyl. As Mothra suggested, playing so close to the mistracking point could mean playing below it the next time the weather changes. We monitor VTF constantly (not with a scale, by ear) and it's become second nature just out of habit. If that would drive you nuts then it isn't worth the bother.
In that case (for a ZYX) I'd suggest finding the mistracking point (definitely useful info to know) and then playing .10 - .15g above that in warmer weather, .15 - .20g above in cold/dry weather. That would work as a virtually set-and-forget method for any ZYX we've used.
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Hi Halcro, You combined two topics into one post. I'll address them individually. METHODS Arthur's method and mine are more alike than different. We each start from a defined baseline and move up in increments, noting sonic improvements as we go. When the sound begins to deteriorate we take that as the upper limit of the sweet zone. We then fine tune between that upper limit and the last known point of improvement, which of course is the sweet zone's lower limt. It's the same methodology. There are some differences of course. Our baselines are different. Arthur starts at the manufacturer's recommended minimum VTF. I start at the mistracking point, which will vary with individual cartridges, tonearms, climates, and even records. Choose an arbitrary point or learn how to optimize for each unique situation, it's up to you. Arthur takes you through big steps, then smaller steps, then tiny steps. I take you directly to tiny steps because IME they are audible with this cartridge. RESULTS We play a few hundredths of a gram above the mistracking point. You prefer much higher VTF's. I suspect this is because we listen to different music, through different systems, with different ears that are attuned to different sonic priorities. (BTW, it would really help discussions like this if yours were listed.) The strings sound just as horrible at 1.5gm, 1.7gm and 1.9gm.
I'm not surprised. 1.5g is much too low and 1.7 probably is too. Ours is the only UNIverse I've heard of that's yet broken in (down?) enough to play below 1.8, never mind any lower. 1.9 would have been marginal in colder weather for us a year ago, as I explained. I doubt yours has enough hours on it to attempt such low VTF's. I actually found that I heard none of your aural descriptions on HF and bass when I followed your methodology. The fact that I'm tracking much higher than you and apparently the other users here is a little worrying?.....but perhaps it's all system dependent? I'm getting the Continuum Copperhead this week together with the Dynavector DV1s and I get my Schroeder Ref arm in a month so I'll be able to mount the ZYX in both to compare it to the Hadcock. I think you've hit the nail on the head. The UNIverse is too resolving and sensitive a pickup for your present tonearm to get the most out of it. I suspect you'll hear very different results with both of your new arms, on which I congratulate you BTW. Doug |
All of a sudden things began to really get amazing. Right around 2.00 the sound just...well blew my head off... :-) ... not only is the superior sound that vinyl playback delivers satisfying but the fact that its hands on, your own trial and error thats what i love almost as much as the sound. Me too. It's like playing an instrument that needs constant, knowing attention to give its best. Stltrains, AFAIK you're #2 in the world to successfully play a ZYX below 1.70g. Welcome to insanity. ;-) |
Stltrains, After we had UNIverse #1 for about a year Mehran heard from some foreign dealer wanting a used one for demo purposes. He offered us a good trade in so we took the opportunity to get back to zero hours. ZYX has no retipping service per se. When the time comes Mehran takes your old cartridge in trade and sells you a new one at a special price - like he did with ours. One could investigate aftermarket retippers but I wouldn't do it myself. They probably don't have access to the ZYX stylus. It's finer than other microridges, which IMO is one reason for the great resolution, clear HF extension and almost non-existent inner groove distortion. No coarser stylus that I've heard can do these things. SirSpeedy wrote: ...just last week I played a 49 year old disc... which reinforced my "opinion" ... that there has been NO real progress in "musical reality" on recordings. No argument from me. I've been trying to help a fellow A'goner with sibilance problems he's having on certain LP's of contemporary female vocalists. He mailed me a couple since we don't have them. They played clean for us but the root cause of his problems became obvious: the singers were miked too close. When they push sibilants hard any component in the system that doesn't do HF's extremely well is going to smear them. In addition, these engineers multi-miked everything and manipulated the tracks in the mix. (Example: three mikes for one acoustic bass, good grief!) The result sounds artificial. I want to hear music, not engineering tricks. I put on some old Verve recordings of Ella and Billie just to hear it done (almost) right again. :-) BTW,anyone else,other than me,feel that the actual "phono cartridge"(the BEST of the breed) has been the "biggest" improvement in "real" reality,amongst the multitude of components that make up a great system?Do you think "this" has been the greatest breakthrough in music reproduction? Until we got our Nick Doshi electronics we would have agreed entirely. Now it's not so easy to say that. We've heard 1 or 2 other cartridges that come reasonably close to a UNIverse. We've heard no other phono or line stage that comes close to our Doshi Alaap. There's been real progress there too. |
I see that the Olympos for sale is the lower output model, just 0.2mv. That's the version we've heard, twice; it's presumably faster and more responsive than the high output version. When I hit the lotto I'm thinking of asking Mehran for an extra-low output UNIverse, just half the length of wire on the coils for .12mv. It should sound incredible and we have enough gain.
We recently had a second opportunity to A/B the Olympos and UNIverse, this time in our system on our arm (last time was in Cello's system on a Schroeder Ref.) Different arms produce different results of course, but we were still surprised.
The Olympos no longer displayed the slight speed advantage it had at Cello's, they now seem dead even in that respect. More evidence that our relaxing suspension is letting the UNIverse become a hair faster? The session at Cello's compared a low hours UNIverse with a well seasoned Olympos, which perhaps gave some advantage to the Lyra (the opposite of our UNIverse/Orpheus session, which gave that advantage to the ZYX).
The only significant difference between these two in our setup was surprising to me, though not to the owner, who referred to the "classic, old Lyra sound". The Olympos brushed each note with the lightest touch of mink (his own term, very apt). It was like the subtlest imaginable Koetsu-ing of the sound, very unlike any modern Lyra.
It was so deftly done that even Paul admired it, and he normally dislikes that sort of coloration even more than I do. While we prefer the more revealing neutrality of the ZYX we could happily live with an Olympos! We can't afford both! Like you we're not collectors of anything but records, and those are for listening.
P.S. The Orpheus would also be on our shortlist of top class favorites and I actually can't think of any others (that we've heard). I expect a fully broken in copy would come pretty close to the other two, with individual differences I'm sure. A more extended comparison with seasoned copies would be interesting.
P.P.S. Remember that nasty, pinch-warped copy of 'Trio' the new Orpheus couldn't track? Well, neither could the seasoned Olympos. Nor can Dan_Ed's XV-1S. There's something about that warp that gives most cartridges fits. For whatever reason, a ZYX sails over it without even pumping the woofers. Maybe some arm/cart magic going on?
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Hi Jonathon,
Thanks for getting me more up to date. I haven't heard a Titan i but of course I'll pay close attention if/when I get the chance.
"Artfully stylized" sounds alot like "brushed with a hint mink" to me. ;-) It really was artful, as I said.
Those poetic liberties weren't audible the first time we heard an Olympos, in another system, but they were clearly on display during our recent session. That's a good demonstration of the points you made regarding setup, other components and the neutrality of systems as a whole. The less colored everything else gets, the more noticeable even subtle shades of color become when they're present in any one component.
Of course personal preference always wins out, as you said. This particular Olympos owner brought it around to compare because he wanted to hear it in a system that's more neutral than his own. He prefers a hint (just a hint) of that poetic license. His system has a touch of it and he understands quite well this is why he prefers the Olympos.
BTW, thanks for the nth time for your helpful advice re: the frequency of stylus cleaning (2-3 years ago on VA). We've been religious followers and advocates ever since as you know, to good effect. I've saved any number of "broken" cartridges belonging to others simply by cleaning up the state their neglected styli had fallen into.
Regards,
Doug
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I just can't hear the significant sound improvement over a small range dialing in on the sound sweat spot when adjusting vta Lucky you! Set the base of the cartridge level and get used to its sound before giving yourself fits over VTA. We dial it in because we hear it and it annoys us if it's off. Otherwise we wouldn't bother. I guess I here it most in the rich overtones (I play around with upright bass)
You can bring those in or out by fine tuning VTF, as Oilmanjo described. Getting VTF just right has a bigger impact with this cartrdge than getting VTA just right. I've also found I can vary the balance between musical heft and weight vs. overtones and transparency by adjusting antiskate. More A/S = more heft, less = more delicacy. when I'm heavily dialing vta it seems that my 233.5 offset ... gets quite a bit out of alignment Normal on a TriPlanar, unfortunately. That's why the instructions say to loosen the VTA set screw and then resnug it to "barely loose" before moving the arm up or down. This minimizes play in the locking mechanism, which is what allows offset to change. After making a VTA adjustment, I hold the bearing cage with my right hand and try to pivot it gently back and forth while I tighten the VTA set screw. That assures the set screw is properly seated against the vertical channel. should I only be going a few revolutions on the vta adjustment? From the cartridge bottom level position, our entire record collection falls within about 3 revolutions of the VTA dial, 1.5 either way. Going beyond that is very rare. I can only think of 1 or 2 records out of a thousand that need a bigger adjustment than that. The actual sweet zone for any particular LP is VERY tiny. If you're spinning the dial around whole turns at a time you'll zoom right past it and probably hear no change at all. Try a familiar record and adjust in 1/10 turns at a time, or less. Oilmanjo, Seems like you're hearing pretty much what we hear. I agree with all your points. A few hundredths of a gram above mistracking is always best for us too. We've gotten so we can run VTF down to the sweet spot and predict today's mistracking point without actually having to go there and come back up. But when learning the technique it's best to work through the whole range, to get a feel for how it works and sounds. It took me months to get my head around the methodology, but since then it's been consistent and it gets easier every day. |
Oilman, Your experience matches ours. The precise numbers differ from cartridge to cartridge, climate to climate, but all the effects are the same - including that variability from LP to LP and passage to passage. Tom wrote: I did hear times where the transients sounded all wrong (edgy top end) and times where the bottom end sounded syrupy and congested... That's great! You just heard what to listen for. :-) Edgy HF's on transients indicate the arm is too high. Try moving the arm down in TINY increments until transients are crisp and integrated rather than edgy. This is exactly what I listen for when fine tuning VTA. (Remember, to drop below the setting you want and come back up, to take up backlash in the threads.) Syrupy LF's usually (not quite always) indicate the arm needs to move up, again in tiny increments. As you approach the VTA sweet spot the bass notes tighten up and attain maximum amplitude. This is what Paul listens for. We invariably agree on the same setting, even though our ears/sensitivities tend to focus on opposite ends of the spectrum. So listening for either of the above may work for you. |
