Phil,
When did you get a chance to hear the Soul?
Shakey |
Phil:
I could never really get an image that was coherent. I had problems with at a couple of different octaves in the room. I think that the height of the Druids was a big factor.
I agree that there could have been other things going on (a lot of which I addressed) and with some up line part& pieces, but I think that a lot was driven by the room.
The (pre-renovation) room: 10.5w x 22l x 9.5 h. It had very soft, old carpet on a thick pad and an uneven subfloor. The room really only allowed for the my system to be set up in front of a bay window with the speakers around 18" from the rear walls and 15" from the side walls. One long wall was built-ins (effective reducing the width to 9.5") and the other was windows with brick on the back wall. The rack was between the speakers.
I have since gutted the room: installed hardwood floors, broken up the shelving on the side wall, installed treatment, run a dedicated circuit, moved the rack to the side wall (with the amps still near the speakers. It's allowed me to put the speakers on the opposite wall and improved the sound of the system overall. I now have the speakers 3' off the back wall and almost 2' off the side walls.
I had an enormous problem getting the low end right before. I think a lot of that was driven by the flooring and the sensitivity of the Druids to the 'gap'. The vertical center seemed even higher than in other druid setups I had heard. I'm not sure if that was, in part, driven by the lack of treatments/reflections and the near equality of height and width or perhaps by a dead floor and bright ceiling.
I have to say, I'm excited.
Tim |
Tim, if you used the Druids on that floor without an intermediary 'platform', there is no way the gap would be right. IMO, Zu should not have included carpet spikes with those speakers, instead recommending a plate to be spiked to the floor, with hard-floor spikes fixing the gap to that plate. That's what I did and it made all the difference.
Good to see you still fighting the fight, Phil. I'm still loving the Def. 2s and the Superflys sound killer! |
>>When did you get a chance to hear the Soul?<<
A friend of mine here in L.A. bought what turned out to be the first pair, s/n 0001/0002. They were a custom order configuration and finish. He took delivery about a month ago and I've listened to them expensively. He came to me asking for a recommendation for assembling his first quality audio system, replacing 15 years old HT components. He wanted to get as close as possible to the sound of my Druids system for a specific budget. I knew Soul was coming so I had him order a pair while Zu was still working out manufacturing details, plus I found him a great deal on amplification. Our request for upgrades similar to the "off-menu" upticks that were available for other Zu speakers became the basis for the Superfly Edition.
Phil |
Miklorsmith:
I agree. I originally had the druids spiked to the carpet, but then put it on wood boards which sat on the carpet. made a big difference. In the future, I may swap the wood for stone.
One benefit of the wood was that I coulde slide the speakers about easily. Druids are very directional, and tiny differences to toe in and position made a huge difference to soundstage/imaging.
My room is large and impossible to fully charge. I liked the druid directionality because it enabled me to bypass some of the problems I had in the large room. |
Tim,
Occasionally a room poses too many problems to sound right with a given speaker, until you address the room. It sounds like you have done so.
The Druid floor-to-plinth gap was crucial to get right, to get correct balance out of the speaker below 100Hz. Effectively, the partial Griewe implementation in that cabinet delegated to the floor gap functionality that a full Griewe model handles within the speaker cabinet. Druid's sound balance was *very* sensitive to the gap setting. Differences as small as 1/16" could be heard. It was nearly impossible to fully optimize them on thick carpet on a thick pad.
If you liked the essential character of the Zu FRD in Druid, other problems not withstanding, I think you can be optimistic about Soul Superfly working well in your revised room.
Phil |
Thanks for keeping this thread alive, guys.
I am very excited to receive my pair and get it situated at home.
Does anyone know if shipping began today as anticipated? |
Phil:
Here is the stereophile link:
stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/zu_essence_loudspeaker/index5.html
If you ignore HF what you have left is FRD. Note that the measurement taken both with and without the plinth.
So we have huge suckout at 60 Hz, and I hear freakiness on my Druid at 60Hz too, and another at around 150Hz. This was more surprising to me as I like very much how Druid sound in midrange. Anyway, this is bass loading and FRD sweet spot -- both ragged and unbalanced octave to octave *by the numbers* (which only tells you a little about sound).
Your point about how it actually sounds and measures in your home is 1000% correct and too often ignored by those who obsess with graphs. Especially in base, room interaction dominates speaker etc. |
Zanon,
The actionable part of Atkinson's empirical evaluation of Essence was this:
"In many ways, the Zu Essence is an underachiever, measurement-wise. But the surprise for me, when I auditioned it in AD's room, was how much of its measured misbehavior was not too audible, other than the rolled-off highs and the lack of impact in the lower midrange. I suspect that Zu's designer has carefully balanced the individual aspects of the Essence's design so that the musical result is greater than the sum of its often disappointingly-measuring parts.—John Atkinson"
I don't have a 150Hz problem in my installation. "Lack of impact in the lower midrange" disappeared after months of use. The Zu FRD does need to be USED to fully realize its potential. I had a 60Hz anomaly -- what you call "freakiness," a term I expect to see Atkinson adopt in his empirical counterpoints -- that took awhile to learn how to tune out to the point of irrelevance. My Druids were early versions with the pleated-paper cone. I could hear meaningful changes in bass to mid-range performance in gap-height changes of less than 1/16" inch. Essentially the Druid's partial Griewe implementation delegated to the floor and the floor-plinth gap some of what functionally is fully handled in the enclosure and at the finger vent in Soul's full Griewe model.
On Druid, that floor-plinth gap forces trade-offs. Too high and the deeper bass you dialed in is euphonically fat. Too low and that definition and tautness you dialed in gives up some bass extension. The original pleated cone FRD was more Draconian in these trade-offs than the roll-edge cone of later versions. The 4-08 upgrade gave me more tunability, but in less space. The Zu-spec for floor gap on the older pleated cone was 2 CD jewel cases. For the newer roll-edge cone, it was 1. The increments for sound changes became minute, while the trade-offs were more elastic.
I never understood the claim that Druids have "no bass." My Druids system is on the narrow wall of a 21' x 12' space in an open plan house. The "back" of the space flows into the kitchen. A 38 Hz wave is just shy of 30 feet long. That sounds about right when I stand in my kitchen.
Last fall when Sean Casey visited for a Zu house party I hosted, he was listening to my Druids system and suddenly started rifling through a stack of magazines by the couch. He pulled out two identically thin issues of "American Photographer" and slid them under the center of the plinth, further modifying the gap after I had cranked the plinth studs all the way in. Magazines under, perfect. My 60Hz problem was for practical purposes gone, at least in my room, and I got more extension and definition in the bass region.
The Zu boys are very practical about finding the sweet spot in inevitable trade-offs between sound, target customer environments, manufacturability, economics. They know what sounds good in real world residential rooms and have delivered something that works well in the widest range of room, construction and system types of any speaker family I've used or had experience with in 40 years of spending my own money on audio. Few loudspeakers in home audio are universal but a Zu speaker, the BBC LS3/5a, and the original Quad electrostatic come far closer than most.
Phil |
Phil:
Yes, the Stereophile review was positive, and please, I keep saying i am not a numbers guy.
I'm just pointing out that when you look at third party measurements of Essence FRD in its frequency zone they look very little like the Zu measurements of the Soul FRD in the same frequency zone. Given that the drivers are similar, it is remarkable -- although of course the driver is not identical.
I'm not a "measurement is everything" guy and Zu is not a "measurement is everything" speaker -- this is all very good. But Zu was bitten in butt by measurement in the past, and I would hate for a third party reviewer to run their measurement, and it not look like the ironing table Zu has on their site for this speaker.
Am I being a jerk for saying "Zu is too perfect!!"? Maybe, although that is not my intention. I am big fan of company and speakers. I am simply pointing out that this change is so dramatic, I'd love to see it verified by an independent third party even though I will trust my own EARS for how the speaker sounds, which is distinct from how it measures.
I disagree with you that Zu works well in widest range of rooms. I think EVERY speaker seriously needs care with placement to get the most out of it. The number of bad installations I have seen are ridiculous, and while it may be more fun to buy new hardware, spending a weekend (or month) sweating while you carry your speakers about the place will do more for sound. Sweat beats money. The port tuning does reduce one variable and that legitimately makes things easier of course. |
>>Am I being a jerk for saying "Zu is too perfect!!"? Maybe, although that is not my intention. I am big fan of company and speakers. I am simply pointing out that this change is so dramatic, I'd love to see it verified by an independent third party even though I will trust my own EARS for how the speaker sounds, which is distinct from how it measures.<<
Not arguing with you. I have to ask Sean the origin of his graph. I just don't know and wasn't interested enough to ask. I view speaker response graphs as dubious marketing. And I say that as a marketer. Lots of speakers measure out ruler flat, uncorrelated to how they sound, so I pay no attention to this. I don't know how you measure a speaker for performance in the customer's room, so I've *never* put credence to speaker measurements. Almost every speaker I've heard that sounds natural is seriously compromised on paper in some way, and so has every speaker that sounds atrocious to me. The real trouble is the sheer mediocrity of most speakers that measure well, at any price. You're unlikely, for instance, to see me write anything even remotely positive about a Wilson, McIntosh, Coincident, PSB or B&W speaker, regardless how they measure and yet a company that consciously voices its products, like Sonus Faber, can often float something outstanding into the market. On the other hand, most Fostex-based hi-eff designs sound as ragged to me as they measure, but I don't need measurements to tell me that. So I think overall the industry has never developed an empirical representation of a loundspeaker's sound that is worth a damn in making a buying decision. John Atkinson sure hasn't.
>>I disagree with you that Zu works well in widest range of rooms. I think EVERY speaker seriously needs care with placement to get the most out of it. The number of bad installations I have seen are ridiculous, and while it may be more fun to buy new hardware, spending a weekend (or month) sweating while you carry your speakers about the place will do more for sound. Sweat beats money. The port tuning does reduce one variable and that legitimately makes things easier of course.<<
My statement regarding the unusually wide latitude of room and system types a Zu FRD speaker can be easily used in doesn't in any way contradict your view that "...every speaker seriously needs care with placement..." Yup, if you're up for it. But how much obsession should this quest for realistic music reproduction have to take? I abhor man-cave dedicated listening rooms. They're killing audio as an economically-viable hobby. It's a signpost of social dysfunction most people can't identify with. All my life, my systems have been in my living spaces. I have two full-blown SET vacuum tube Zu systems out in the open living areas of my home now - with turntables. In any room I'm going to put a stereo, the available space that reconciles sound with room usability is going to be a pretty tight box. There are not going to be any tube traps in my house. Micrometer-precise speaker placements. I'll use normal household items like furniture, books, art, etc. to "tune" my rooms. In other words, I'm going to make it as good as reasonable effort can make it, within the constraints I set by making hi-fi part of my *visible* life. When people visit, it's there, so anyone can experience it. This is how I got exposed to hi-fi 50 years ago, and audio would be in a healthier state if we returned it to a public place in domestic life.
Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound" has an audience, and yeah even a casual listener can benefit from some of it. But it misses the whole point of audio in the first place. If you have to read that book to get good sound, the whole industry has gone awry. Well, it obviously has, already. Maybe a hundred-thousand people in the whole world of six billion folks want the fuss. Want to know why audio is dying? The answer is in that book, and it's not related to the sonic consequences of all the things Jim thinks people do wrong.
So, on a relative basis, with the exception of Druid's fussy gap height, it's very hard to get bad sound through inexact-but-reasonable placement of a Zu speaker, and this is especially true of Soul. They did a great job of making it "drop-and-play." Dial it in if you're interested enough, but if you're a music lover who cares about room function and aesthetics over sonic bliss, and you plop your Souls where you planned to put speakers and nowhere else, you're still going to get good sound. THIS audience is more obsessive, but Zu's whole point in life is to make it easy for THAT audience that isn't.
Phil |
Phil:
LOL! I agree! I very much like Zu's philosophy of HiFi being something that lives where you do. My Zu's live in my living room, with TV in between. But it means the whole family listens to them ALL THE TIME and we keep the TV off. It is a better life.
Still, I would recommend Jeff's book. For one thing, it helped me get alignment and toe-in perfect, and there is one spot on the couch that has the best presentation, although it is OK in the rest of the room as well (but the sweet spot is much sweeter). Given how directional Zu's are, the toe in and alignment really does matter. I think people who are dissappointed by Zu sound have not spent enough time on this element of placement.
Secondly, and more importantly, Jeff's book helped me understand how much of my sound is because of my room and how much is because of the speaker, and how the two are interconnected. It got me off the "upgrade" treadmill, I am not seeking "better" because I understand and accept very well the limitations of my system and know that new speakers, amps, or cables is not the weak component. |
Phil:
What did you end up finding for amps for your friend? And what do you like with your Zu's? Put my order in yesterday for a batch 2 august ship.
Tim |
I too have the superfly on order and have appreciated your comments. What can you say about the cosmic carbon? I am wondering if I'd prefer a different finish. |
>>What can you say about the cosmic carbon?<<
I think it's black, with highlights and character. I haven't seen that finish. My friend ordered his speakers with a custom color. I have seen other Zu colors in the kind of paint used for Cosmic Carbon, and it's a smooth matte, highly durable and chip-resistant, and tends not to show fingerprints. If black speakers are your thing, you'll probably like it. And standardizing on it keeps Zu's costs in line so the price can be maintained. But personally I'd pop some extra for a color.
Phil |
To be frank the only thing holding me back from a punt on the 60 day return right now is that there just aren't enough images of the Soul/Superfly to get an idea of finishes. I'm sure that will change soon. Least I hope it will.
Mike |
That is a concern of mine as well. I really wished they had put more, natural pictures up on their website. I'm concerned that everything they posted looks like it was taken through a camera filter.
For the free Superfly upgrade, however, it was worth the leap of faith. They don't have to look as good as my Abbys, they just have to deliver the goods without being eye sores/throwing off my living room too much. |
I've seen the predecessor finishes to the Soul matte standard finish, on other Zu speakers. Sean Casey assures me this is better still. Every time he's told me that in the past, regarding improvements to their paint, he's proven correct. For anyone who can afford it, I think one thing hasn't changed -- gloss automotive finishes change the look of Zu for the better in absolutely every respect. So that's what I recommend for anyone whose finances allow it. The matte finish, however, does not look cheap in any way. It's stable, smooth-for-matte, durable and consistent.
Phil |
Phil,
No concerns on the quality of the finish. Zu finishes are amongst the very best I hsve ever seen. It's more that it's hard to visualise on a smaller floorstander than we're used to from them.
For instance, I found the piano black very old fashioned looking on the Druid and it would have been too much in my lounge on the Essence. I suspect it may have a greater appeal on the Superfly because of size and shape, and it will match the Pioneer tv beautifully. Howver, short of spending a while with Photoshop, I need to see it. Zu need to get some varied pics up asap imo.
Mike |
"To be frank the only thing holding me back from a punt on the 60 day return right now is that there just aren't enough images of the Soul/Superfly to get an idea of finishes. I'm sure that will change soon. Least I hope it will."
(Apologies in advance if I am a bit too blunt and forward for some people)
Interestingly if you put lower wattage bulbs in your lighting at home then the finish of the speakers will not make one bit of difference.
The Zu speakers could be in cardboard boxes for me if they produced music the same as what I am experiencing.
Use the statement, "yeah I know the colour is not very nice, but that's the only colour they do them in, and they are the best speaker that I have come across for music, so I have ordered them." This statement is best said via a phone call or via email, to give the other party chance to cool.
Alternatively if you are feeling brave you can say it face to face, but ensure that you have your full ice-hockey kit on at the time! |
Regarding the Soul Response Graph:
I had an email exchange with Sean Casey regarding the smoothness of his published Soul Superfly response graph and its credibility in the context of prior measured response of other Zu speakers, most notably JA's empirical evaluation of Essence in the Stereophile review, because the question was raised here and I didn't have a definitive answer.
Sean promised to post notes on the measurement scheme in a FAQ on Soul. Here's part of his narrative to me in an email exchange:
"Yeah, several have questioned how we have achieved such a more or less smooth amplitude response with Soul when Essence had large “problems” in the presence region as measured by JA in Stereohile. Essence is not Soul, nor Druid. But before I get too far into things, let me say that Zu uses tests and measurement technology to assist in the designing of a good sounding, to-the-max-shove, tone-rich loudspeaker.
'We use tests and measures as tools to speed the process and fine-tune what we hear or what we want to accomplish. Building a good-sounding loudspeaker is best done with the ear as arbiter of tone, using tests and measures to assist in drilling down on a problem, realizing new insight, and absolutely in matching and quality assurance systems. Amplitude response without such things as phase and group delay measures are just a fraction of the equation. Essence runs the ribbon tweeter down lower in the bandwidth than Soul. Because of this the 10" full-range driver has significant overlap with the ribbon tweeter, and because of this there will be constructive and destructive interference between them. These interferences and their graphed patterns are highly “point measured” dependent. With Soul we focus the electrical high-pass filter very high, essentially 20kHz (note impedance graph, blue trace), and also reposition phase to better match the unfiltered FRD. There is still overlap between the two drivers, but much less. And the overlap that is there is phase matched and time-aligned. The results are a much less ragged looking presence region in the amplitude graph, than JA measured with Essence. Is all this audible? Maybe, and it depends on other factors, but for sure it makes for a good looking amplitude response!"
That's the preamble to the tech notes you'll eventually see on Sean's web site but I thought some of you might like to see his initial comments now. I will say that Sean's explanation regarding reduced overlap between FRD and supertweeter, plus the attention to phase-matching the overlap that's present, corresponds to what I hear as a distinct cleaning up of the midrange through top-end anomalies remaining in the Druid 4-08. When combined with the sharply-improved bottom end and the overall increase in dynamic aliveness, Soul Superfly comes out in all ways a better speaker than its older brother.
Phil |
Avonessence: I have druids in standard matt black, which may be similar to cosmic graphite, and i think they look very nice.
Phil: Did not mean to open can of worms with my question. And let me stress again, I do not care too much about the graphs, and I very much like Zu for tone and dynamics.
Better integration with supertweeter would definitely help with freq response in HF.
But I do not think it tells us about 60Hz-200Hz! This though is being ridiculous as in room measurement at seated position is what is important here and that will vary room to room. |
And I appreciate you looking into this, and Sean for clarifying! Sean is one of the good guys for sure. |
Zanon: When I first heard the Zu Druids they were in the same Matt Black, and they do look nice, but when you hear that sound come out of them, the fit and finish become secondary to me.
My first pair of Druids were in gloss black as are my current Essence speakers (there was no difference in price to us on this side of the pond at the time, where there is now), if it were the matt black or the cosmic carbon I would be happy as it is a reasonably neutral colour, and the performance of the Zu speakers make them disappear visually to me.
I think any paint finish/colour (within reason) on the Zu speakers looks very good.
In addition, Zu offering to do other customized finishes is something that we do not find with manufacturers in the UK. The manufacturers in the UK are a bit reserved when it comes to finishes. |
Some of us have to factor in the WAF regardless of our own views on the subject. Left to my own devices it'd be Ferrari Red but there are other considerations. I've owned one pair of speakers for 20 years and my intent is that this next pair will be in situ for a similar period. Will I be in the same house with the same decor by then? Who knows? What I do know is that my hobby is indulged subject to WAF and that I myself want something acceptable to look at when they're not playing music. As soon as Zu get more pictures up and, better still, I get to dem a pair then I'll make a decision but not before.
Mike
PS: Phil, what sort of music have you listened to on the Soul and what insights did it give you? |
Mike: Your patience and resolve is to be thoroughly respected and is admirable.
Music is an integral part of the WAF, and as Phil says is there for all to enjoy.
Interesting and enlightening times are ahead when the Soul's land in the UK.
ATB |
I suspect my patience and resolve are amongst my mist annoying personality traits :) - even for me. This is killing me. If these speakers do what the Druid and Presence do then they're clearly a keeper. Phils posts have been enormously informative and have an authority and credibility to me as his description elsewhere and here of the differences between Essence and Druid chime so closely with what so many others have experienced. It's easy to forget that essentially the number of people who have heard them appears to be in single figures (at least on here) and so some caution needs to be exercised as speakers are such a personal thing.
Bring it on Zu.
Mike |
I requested more photos that show the finish and the back and sides. Zu is completing the first production pairs this week and will then throw up some more images. I was told that matte finishes start at $400 and custom colors at $2000. I'd love it in a sharp color, but 2 large is too much. Guess I'll need to learn to love the cosmos carbonation. |
Wow... I hate to say it but you can paint a nice car for that much scratch... Seems that is one sticking factor for Zu since day one is the finishing process and costs, I mean thats as much as the speaker itself.
Then again I see speakers and gear as "Utilitarian" devices and no need for anything fancy unless its under the hood.. Pure performance, if it has to be raw concrete and it sounds best thats the key to me.
Mostly I love to see the birds eye finishes, and piano black, but for the cost I can deal with flat black that goes with anything and can hide in a room for the most part anyway, it is a speaker and most people accept that. Few hundred extra I can see it, but few thousand and we are getting too far out on the line in this hobby for a "finish" especially in systems with speakers that mostly are under the 10,000 dollar cost spectrum. Listen to the music don't try to look at it! |
As I said in a previous post, I looked at (and listened to) practically every speaker available in NYC. Most were very expensive, ill porportioned, ugly boxes that had really great finishes. All the dealers claimed that a large part of the costs were in the finish. Amazing amount of various "good" sound, but big and ugly. Wilsons? Anybody remember that song "Fat bottom girls"?
I decided to buy a Gallo strada/sub 7.1 system. Nice disappearing matte black finish and small footprint, huge sound...only problem not good for set, but since I was desirous of a bigger sound than my Devore/300b combo could produce I was ready to look for alternate amplification. Then I saw the ad for the Zu and realized I could easily alternate my Gallo 7.1 fronts and zu/300b in a very small footprint. After my search, I came to admire both Gallo and Zu for giving great engineering in small enclosures for a reasonable cost. It seems that basic matte finishes are part of the equation.
Any recommendations for 7.1 receiver or separates for the Gallos? I wish there was a 45w per side 300b set. |
Venicelake, I completely agree... Also the simpler the better in many cases. For sure I can say that Zu with S.E.T. is plenty of big sound. I never heard Gallos so I can't give any advice, cool enclosure with the orb' style setup though. |
I don't get that paint surcharge---on Essence its 1200 bucks. And Soul is smaller than Essence, correct? |
Can we just clarify the maths as those figures don't tally with quotes I've had from Zu in the past for bringing into the UK. The costs quoted on their site don't appear to equate with that either. If I'm wrong then cosmic carbon it is :)
Mike |
Just got a tracking number for my pair! |
$2000 was a direct email response from Zu. It seemed high to me also. Your response from them may very. |
I think the prior gloss charges proved insufficiently profitable to be sustainable for Zu, because meeting their standards skyrocketed the labor input to production. People are more demanding about finish quality of flat surfaces in their homes, under interior lighting than they are with automotive finishes on outdoor-lit compound surfaces objects like cars. The pair of Soul Superfly I heard were painted in a custom gloss color and it's an aesthetically transformative upgrade. They're above Wilson finish quality and look sensational. Whether it's worth $2K to you, only you can say but the gloss charge reflects the labor, materials and capital investment reality once the company truly examined the economics of custom gloss.
Phil |
Phil, any chance of getting pics of your friends souls? I'd love to see them before mine go into production. I am sitting on the fence as I have a favorite color and if these, as I hope, turn out to be a long term keeper I'd love to have them in that color. Thanks. |
"06-08-10: Mahughes
Can we just clarify the maths as those figures don't tally with quotes I've had from Zu in the past for bringing into the UK. The costs quoted on their site don't appear to equate with that either. If I'm wrong then cosmic carbon it is :)
Mike"
I was quoted $2000 for the gloss black and approx $350 for the shipping on the Zu Soul Superfly. |
Venicelake
I would suggest getting an in home demo of a Zu pair and explain your concern directly... If they work out in a standard or even plain MDF finish prototype for you, and you can agree to a small shipping fee difference then you can assure they are for you or not and then maybe get a discount on a new gloss custom color as they will see you do want them permanently. Maybe they will even decide to ship you the custom ones up front and take them back for another sale if you reject them for a small fee.
I know Zu normally would accomidate something like this if necessary. These are not that big and heavy, I know something like this thru the 48 states U.S. was in the 75 to 100 per pair range a couple years ago with their Fed ex discount. But I think they can understand at this upgrade cost it is worth it to them to try and make it work for you. This is their business and they deal in it everyday, so its not that outside the fence. |
My pair was scheduled to be delivered Tuesday, but the FedEx man came by today with my Superflys. They sound very good right out of the box driven by my First Watt, but I received them with hardwood floor footers rather than spikes for carpet.
I'm going to give Zu a call on Monday to get that and whatever literature was supposed to come with the speakers that may have been accidentally omitted.
Still even with the gap not being optimal, I think I'm going to enjoy these speakers. More more body and drive to the presentation--hopefully resolution sets in with burn in. |
Yay, finally a second opinion :)
Look forward to regular updates Gopher.
Mike |
My initial impressions are very positive. I'm hearing a much more complete sound than my Abbys could convey. I was not aware I was missing out on as much treble detail/extension as I was with my prior single driver, but the super tweeter is really great.
The mids are full and textured but I'm detecting a bit of hardness which I suspect will go away with break in, also I do find myself wanting a touch for more detail in this area.
The bass is obviously not optimal using floor mounts in carpet, but even still I can't really complain. It is fast and punchy.
This speaker does dynamics better than my Abbys which I felt were one of its strengths. Its an exciting presentation.
One surprise for me is that despite the significantly higher sensitivity (101 from 95) my noise floor is down. While my First Watt (which is working great in this system btw) is pretty silent in operation, my preamp is not usually as quite, but now I can't hear the low level of noise I could with my less efficient speakers.
Also, I seem to open the volume pot MORE now than before to get to similar levels. Not much more, but I worried going to this level of efficiency I wouldn't be able to fine tune volume levels as easily.
As far as looks go, the pictures on the site are pretty accurate, even at night under artificial light they look similar to the direct sun pictures. While they aren't as pretty as the Abby's, they are attractive in their own right, simple, clean and very well finished.
FWIW I have serial numbers 11 and 12, so I guess I have the sixth pair made.
Sigh... I guess its time to post the Abbys up for sale. Hate to do it, but based on my experience so far, Phil is probably right that I can move to these from my prior speakers without missing any aspect of the old sound. |
Thanks Gopher. Keep us all posted. I'm especially interested in how the mid band develops as that, for me, was the great strength of the Druids. The sense of air being physically moved when a sax or a trumpet was blown; that sense you were hearing a real musician and not just a facsimile.
I can't be bothered to trawl through earlier posts but had you heard the Druid or not?
I'm hopeful a UK pair will be here soon for demo!!!
Mike |
Mike,
I had not heard a Druid, but was actually researching the possibility of a pair as a successor to my Abbys when these were announced. I had pretty much resolved to buy the next used pair that didn't have a 'weird' color scheme to try in home and re-sell if I didn't like them. Then the Soul with free Superfly deal came around for about the price of used druids and I couldn't hold back. Also the metronome looking enclosure is more attractive to me.
One thing I'm liking a lot about these speakers is that they are far more versatile than my Abbys. I've thrown on some reggae and hip hop for grins and it does a very good job delivering the goods.
I was up listening till almost 2am last night and was up at 8am today to rock out a little more before the family gets up and I have to start the day. |
Gopher,
I don't recall which First Watt amp you have, but keep in mind that the Abby is an 8 ohm nominal impedance speaker, whereas Soul Superfly is 16 ohms. So you're -3db on power into the higher impedance at a given volume setting (though up 6db on power transfer efficiency). This combined with the somewhat incomplete break-in that sets in during shipping probably explains the extra volume rotation you're getting. The speaker will begin sounding more dynamic and subjectively a little louder for a given setting as break-in of the internal wiring and the cone/motor proceeds.
You'll also hear more detail emerge in the mid-band as the cone limbers up. Further, while the Soul doesn't have the floor gap fussiness of the Druid (which you now hear by getting real bass despite the speaker base sitting directly on carpet), installation of appropriate spikes will allow the Griewe model finger vents to properly function, and when the Griewe model is working properly, it affects sound right up through the mid-range. It's not just a bass performance feature.
Last, for now, if you really want max mid-range detail punch, borrow an 845 SET amp, or lacking that availability try any decent tube amp with 20w-60w of muscle. See how you like that compared to the First Watt. The only solid state amps I've heard give the Zu FRD the dynamic drive detailed shove of a jumpy tube amp are McIntosh autoformer output amps. You can get more jump factor and detail smack from tubes at a given budget than you can from transistors, if your ears are really hungry for smash-and-grab attention. But First Watt amps have specific sound assets and you'll hear them come through more vividly as break-in proceeds. Zu has told me in the past that the toughest break-in factor for speakers that go through factory break-in and aren't cold-weather shipped, is the internal cabling dialectric. Crank it when you can.
Phil |
On another issue, came across this, this morning:
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=RedcastleProductions&folderid=4013 |
I just got off the phone with Gerrit at Zu and he cleared up my concerns. There is no owners manual printed yet, so it wasn't mistakenly omitted and they haven't decided on spikes yet.
BUT for now the appropriate action is to loosen the nut on the bottom of the speaker and un-thread a little of the pole to set an appropriate height. I'm going to play with that when I go home for lunch today.
Also, I'll try and snap some pictures of them in place in my listening room this evening and update my profile accordingly. |
Gopher,
I had an email exchange with Sean Casey this morning, regarding what should ship with Soul:
a set of protective dust covers
a set of stainless hard surface footers (installed)
a set of stainless jam nuts (installed)
a set of long carpet spikes
guidebook
Sean wrote that everyone whose Souls shipped without the usual owner kit will get what's missing. Remainder items (FRD covers, carpet spikes, guide in your case) will be shipped this week.
Also, the oddball Zu speaker referenced by Avonessence above is a recently-built one-off pair commissioned by one of Zu's suppliers, which essentially funded finished prototyping of an idea Zu had for a Definition-scale, Griewe-cabinet speaker (no powered sub). Consider it an exploration, not a product.
Phil |
"Also, the oddball Zu speaker referenced by Avonessence above is a recently-built one-off pair commissioned by one of Zu's suppliers, which essentially funded finished prototyping of an idea Zu had for a Definition-scale, Griewe-cabinet speaker (no powered sub). Consider it an exploration, not a product."
Nothing wrong in that whatsoever. |
Gopher
congrats on your speakers! I second Phil's recommnendation on 20W-60W, tube if possible.
I don't this Druids at any rate did their best with very low W amps. I also tried First Watt and did not keep for that reason. |
