Thank you - it seems that changing speakers should make me happy.
Fine, problem solved, I'm not mad at Zu anymore :). |
Changing speakers is the solution kindly offered by audiophile brethren. Thank you - I will.
Regarding the original post, so far nobody seems to find the dark humor in the "setup tips" from Zu.
Maybe is just me, but the "setup tips" seem to say to existing customers "you can't get any better. Please minimize disappointment. You got the Zu? Just live with it". But to someone who didn't already own the speakers, the video would say "they are what you wanted - regardless of your circumstances".
Interesting take on post-sales marketing. Post-sales, other companies might try to either a) actually help the customer, or b) get more money through upgrades, or c) simply pretend that the customer does not exist. Well - not Zu - the high-adrenaline marketing effort continues. |
Charles,
Good point. I'd love to hear them well setup too. |
Hi Foster_9,
Thank you. I did look for recommendations from others - most people use them with tubes (Decware). I used them with a Sophia Electric amp. I ended up using SS for what seemed best compromise to me. Zu brochure (and video :)) does indicate that they match equally well with anything... no specific brand needed according to all i read.
Just one more note - the video is funny as hell and worth watching even if you don't care about Zu. Just look at the host on the couch - visibly inconvenienced by the event. The sound coming through my laptop speakers is indeed awful - as one would expect over the internet in a home video, so that's ok... but Sean (as speaker designer) knows that, so when he says that the sound is great - who can contradict him? One clue can be the host: he seems unimpressed (vaguely nodding approval when prompted to show enthusiasm).
Ok, done. |
Hi Johnnyb53,
You're right - outriggers would make tweaking a breeze. I might try them, but is not clear to me that the Zus in particular would work with outriggers. Two concerns:
- the "fingerports" would line up with the location of the feet so that a solid steel bar would practically cover (at least) two of them
- such solid steel bars have their own thickness (1/4"), using up most of the "recommended" spacing even before starting to tune the gap (they might only allow increase but not decrease in gap height).
Thanks,
C. |
Hi Foster_9
In retrospect, I did go through electronics and cabling refinement without touching the speakers gap/tilt for about 2 years - and while learning a lot of the basics of audiophilia I eventually found what I thought was a good synergy with the small Krell (clearly leaps and bounds over what I could get with the Zu/Sophia), and enjoyed it.
Few months ago I started gap/tilt adjustments, with surprisingly great effect on sound. It went back and forth from good to awful, with glimpses of greatness every now and then (greatness to be lost at the next turn of the feet while searching for even better). The CAS further opened my ears (sadly not on Zu - which sounded worse than what I could do at home).
One of the two: either it takes more experience and patience than I have to set them up well - or the Zu video advice saying that "forget the gap/amplification" is right. I'm ready to believe either, but not both. |
@Philtangerine - I love the m-Lores (they are the 8" version of the Lores' 10" driver). Do I see myself going up the Tekton path? Well, regardless of the musicality and aesthetic pleasure, in the back of my mind I still have the idea that Tekton like Zu have found this great niche: plywood cabinetry, modern coloring, off-the-shelf pro drivers that almost feels like I would be able to do it all by myself (I wouldn't, but can't shake the feeling). If I wanted to go up, I would feel a bit uneasy going this way right now.
Which is not to say that this path is wrong. It just would not make me 100% happy even if the music reproduction turned out sublime - and I need at least the possibility of 100% in order to go to my next step.
Right now, personally I'm drawn to exploring laterally a bit more before committing to the final solution. The Holograms is what i would get (if it weren't for the dogs). Maybe they'll come out with an aesthetically-pleasing solution that makes them less vulnerable to dogplay. At this time I believe that they might go 100% (but as with anything, I might find it not true).
Thanks
C. |
Dear all,
Thank you for chiming in with your experience on the Zu speakers fussiness. The OP was more of a tongue-in-cheek at the cheeky marketing totally disconnected from customer. Your comments took the discussion in a more constructive direction.
With your encouragement, I did more tweaking.
I finally (for now, in my room) found the gap for most satisfying musical rendition be about 9.5mm with about 0.0mm tilt. Now when I say "about" I don't mean "set it to some value around 9.5mm". I mean "set it within about 1/10mm of the perfect value (which I cannot measure accurately due to hardwood / speaker bottom imperfections, but seems to be around 9.5mm). Changing the gap from "perfect" even by 1/10 changes the tone (the vocal sss and th and ch turn dull - very easily identifiable as the soundstage tilts towards the other speaker).
Which brings me to the method (admittedly imperfect): first I tweaked the gap of both speakers (one at the time) and listened for clarity and soundstage tilt. At one point, one of the speakers sounded clear and provided the view into the detail of the performance. I left it alone, measured with an upside-down nut and bolt the gap under each foot (turned the bolt until the combination nut/bolt matched the height at that point) then transferred it exactly to the corresponding foot of the other speaker. And did some more minute adjustments to the level of 2/10mm.
Finally - I can understand why a solid plank of wood (or granite) under each speaker with 3/8" screws passing through and providing the gap adjustment might be better than speakers directly on hardwood: the bottom seen by the finger ports (the solid plank) can be made perfectly flat (whereas the room hardwood is what it is), the gap can be tuned much easier, and set for good (so the speakers can be moved without spending days on gap fine-tuning). I might consider this solution at a later time.
Is the Omen providing now the perfect experience? Hard to say (I'm still reminescing the CAS). It does provide a high level of detail with this gap setup, and the sound does not harden at any volume level. The soundstage is not perfect (possibly due to speakers being too close together, also possibly due to residual gap imperfection that might slightly tilt different frequencies towards either of the speakers) - in other words then do not disappear completely. So - is probably still not as good as it can get in a perfect world.
If I decide to fiddle with it more I'd probably go the bottom plank route instead of keeping them on hardwood.
Thank you again for all the help.
C. |
Snopro,
I hear you.
WAF is non-negligible factor here. The best I can do at this point is keep room and spacing in mind as possible reason for part of the limitations regarding soundstage.
Thanks, C |
If I remember right they were driven by a 300B.
On one hand it was the lack of box resonance (there was no wood or MDF vibrating to add audible contribution). On the other hand - the bottom extension was very good (probably owing to the 2 15' drivers covering a lot of area). It felt clean, extremely precise and satisfying. I tried to find a fault but could not.
Comparing with other rooms I liked, the Magico S5 felt unreal - as if you'd grown superhuman hearing, and the Pass Labs room (running a vintage set of Tannoy drivers in handmade MDF huge enclosures) felt pleasant, motherly, somewhat imprecise but very easy to befriend and immerse into.
But the Holograms - I could not find any issue (neither scary, endearing or any other flaw).
They were saying that there is NO room correction of any kind. If I remember right (again) - there was a mac mini on a stabilizer shelf on the floor, but they were running analog source from the back of the room. But I might be mistaken about the analog (too many rooms...).
Thanks
C. |
Hi Shakey,
I've moved them around during these years while other speakers held main room status. They also spent some time in the second system room while the Tekton m-Lores / Sophia Baby was relegated to main room. The m-Lores were great in the living room (sweet, clear and coherent). Main reason for reinstating the Omens / Krell: dogs bumping into furniture while playing (the m-Lores appeared too light and fragile and prone to be knocked over).
It turns out that I'm not spending any time in the second room - though the m-Lores clearly sound more satisfying than the Omens (save for the potentially better Omen bottom extension).
In my view, while the room is likely "an" issue, it is not "the" issue that bothers right now. Right now, based on experimentation to date I'm more inclined to blame the strong dependence of tone (and overall sound quality) to sub-millimeter gap changes for the left-over artifacts.
But I wouldn't mind at all to find out that I'm wrong with my thinking - especially if the correction leads to a solution that is easy to implement. |
To conclude the saga on my end - I have now ceased all tweaking on the Omens with the realization that I don't have what it takes (either room, patience, source, amp, cables or ears). Will get something else that works for what I do have.
Thanks
C. |
Just a short note on this old thread... I still have the Omens in a side system, now driven by the Wadia Powerdac 151 through Slinkylinks speaker cables - but that's not the reason for writing. The reason is dust mites.
If your room is in the real world (and not a class A cleanroom) then dust tends to accumulate on exposed surfaces (having pets does not help either). I found that periodical removal of said dust from under the speakers can yield a step improvement in clarity and definition. YMMV based on your cleaning practices :).
The bottom finger design does not seem well thought out after all - clearly sealed enclosures or side vents do not suffer from this issue. However, knowledge of the flaw and periodic maintenance might make the speaker more bearable for some.
As another side note - I do recommend the Slinkylinks if you can find them. Designed with very low capacitance and inductance (at the expense of some DC impedance). Without going into accolades for this product (which I think it actually deserves) - this implementation of pure silver does remove congestion from the delivered program. |
