Would I be wasting my money to get a turntable?


I am thinking about getting a turntable but I have a Class D amplifier (Nad M33) which digitizes all the analog inputs. If the amplifier is just digitizing the source is there going to be any difference between the vinyl and just listening to lossless digital streaming sources? Is there any benefit to me, given my current amplifier with has no analog pass through capability, to adding a turntable to my system?

fritzenheimer

Showing 4 responses by mulveling

Digitizing itself isn’t going to kill the vinyl sound; I’ve had quite good results with Meridian 808i DAC / preamp units that digitize all analog inputs input and apply DAC / filtering on output - even with very high end vinyl gear. It can be suprisingly transparent. The main thing is that if you're used to a tube preamp, you won't get its added warmth and fullness from any digital preamps (as line stages they are a bit clean and dry) - though you COULD pipe the digital preamp into an input of a tube preamp...

That said, I also had the NAD M12 digital preamp and did not like its sound, at all. The M22 amp was fine, but the M12 did not make the cut here - I think even their older M51 DAC might have been better.

I think it’s not so black-and-white whether class D is or is "not" digital. Sure if you’re getting into a semantics war, it doesn’t meet the criteria of digital quantization and conversion. But some of the elements / patterns are certainly there, and I think @dlevi67 is correct to point them out.

Anyways, in true Audiogon fashion, this sidebar isn’t even fully relevant to OP because the preamp stage of his M33 converts ALL analog inputs to digital (ADC), before it even hits the class D amp stage. Maybe it can directly convert that to the necessary PWM without an intervening DAC stage - that might mitigate the issue I had with the separate M12 + M22 combination's SQ?

In class D amplifier "Voltage" is converted to "Duty Cycle", both analog - meaning there is no discrete steps (unlimited resolution). Duty cycle is back-converted to (amplified) voltage by filtering. Streaming and CDs both have limited resolution (16 bit in CDs).

What happens when your PWM’s oscillator signal frequency is not high enough? Who determines what frequency is "enough"? The resolution is not infinite unless the frequency is infinite (impossible). This is at least vaguely analogous to the sampling rate in digital quantization. Then you have the output filtering to smooth out artifacts from a finite frequency oscillator, and this is analogous to that phase of DA conversion.

Yes, back to the original question - "is vinyl worth it"?

I listen to a lot of rock / metal / pop / new wave from 1970s through 1980s, and for this material the sound quality on vintage vinyl is often far more enjoyable compared to what’s available on digital formats - at least, that’s how I hear it. The overall mastering quality is what’s at play here; it’s not JUST the "loudness wars" thing, and usually the difference is large enough that it overrides other concerns like: extra ADC / DAC conversion, DAC quality, tubes vs SS, $400 vs $4000 cartridge, or Class D versus class A / AB.

If I were focused mostly on music produced since the 1990s, new music, and reissues of older albums, then I’d honestly be hard pressed (haha) to recommend vinyl at all - some of the new music releases are superb on vinyl, but so is the digital side. And frankly, used vinyl prices have gone up so much in the last 10-15 years, that if I were starting out fresh today it would be a real bummer. The only silver lining is there’s a LOT of cool older analog gear available on the used markets - so if you like to experiment (like I do), the world is your analog sandbox.

Like all things in this hobby, we can (and do) discuss the pros vs. cons all day long, but the only way to figure out which side you fall on is to dip your toe in. Sometimes I find the pundits right, sometimes wrong - and I’ve surely doled out plenty of advice that has fallen both ways too :-/