I liked the Sophias initially when I heard them, but after hearing the MAXX 3, I have to say you really need at least the WATT/Puppy 8 to really be able to justify that kind of price for Wilsons. The Sophias are disappointing in comparison, lacking that devastating slam and attack that Wilsons are famous for.
For that budget, you're much better off with B&W 802Ds, a superior speaker for less the cost. Wider soundstage, pinpoint precise imaging, voluptuous bass, incredible mid-range, sugary sweet highs, and a beautiful cabinet to boot. The Sophias have a more narrow, focused soundstage, if that's what you want, but unconvincing upper mid-range and treble performance. Not a bad speaker, but not as good as the 802Ds. |
People's taste differ, but certainly anyone that introduces into the conversation terms such as "crazy" and "joke" knows little about speakers and even less about expressing themselves.
The WATT/Puppy 8 is, plain and simple, a far better speaker than the Sophia 2. Even David Wilson has admitted as much. What Wilson Audio does best is deliver a hyper-realistic soundstage with remarkable imaging, excellent micro-dynamics and accurate timbre, and considerable attack and slam, and these start with the WATT/Puppys and is improved with the MAXX 3, and ends ultimately with the Alexandria X-2 Series 2. I should know, I have demoed the Wilson range extensively, and would ultimately choose the X-2 Series 2 as one of the absolute best "all-around" speakers in existence.
The Sophia 2, unfortunately, was introduced for its price-point, to appeal to the "audiophile mass-market". It is a good speaker, but does not nearly come close to what Wilson built its reputation on.
The 802D, on the other-hand, is a fantastic speaker. It is, excluding the made-to-order 20 pairs a year Nautilus, arguably the second-best production speaker made by B&W, besting even the 801D in most reasonably-sized listening rooms. The 800D is better, with a fuller bass response and overall better tonal balance due to the use of larger woofers and cabinet, and superior cross-overs, but the difference is not as large as you say.
The Sophia 2's excel at providing a narrow and tight, believable soundstage. However, its soundstage is unmistakably small, and absolutely minuscule compared to the 802Ds. While the Sophia 2 might appear to be more "transparent", and it is a very revealing speaker, unfortunately that transparency is highlighted by a certain dryness that makes certain recordings almost unlistenable. Some may find that as a sign of excellent reproduction, so it's all a matter of taste and also what you enjoy listening to. If a considerable segment of your music collection is older or not well-recorded, the Sophias will emphasize these characteristics.
The Sophia 2 does excel at excellently recorded "audiophile" recordings, as does the 802D. I have no doubt that unless you are bringing in your own discs, any Sophia 2 demo conducted by the dealer will be using exclusively such material. But the true test of any speaker, at least from a pragmatic buyer's point of view, is how well it responds to not only all types of music, but all levels of recording quality.
The 802Ds are superior to the Sophia 2s in these regards, and overall, is a better speaker for most types of music and recordings. Again, taste is a factor, and what some people see as "color" in the mid-range, some hear as "musicality".
Frequency response-wise, the 802D is an average speaker, no question about that. If you want the ultimate "flat"-testing speakers, better look elsewhere, probably something by Harmon would suit you best. But if we go beyond what the charts tell us and listen exclusively with our ears, the 802D is a stunningly wonderful speaker, and one of the best values of any non-ID speaker at its price-point. |
$14,000, while a considerable expense for the average person, is basically "entry level" for the high-end market. Not to be confused with "hi-fi", mind you, there are many great "hi-fi" speakers for a fraction of that. With the emergence of fine ID manufacturers, that barrier-to-entry has come down even lower, and from a "value" standpoint, it's difficult to match a manufacturer such as Salk, for example, for dollar-for-dollar performance.
But as I carefully referenced "audiophile mass-market", my meaning was clear. The $14,000 price-point would be considered "mass-market" (in a relative, not literal sense) for "high-end" manufacturers, if they even have such a model. Magico floorstanders used to start at $25,000, before introducing a new entry-level model last month for $18,000. Kharma floorstanders start closer to $40,000. High Emotion Audio and Goldmund floorstanders start at around six figures.
And yes, Wilson Audio Specialties is a "high-end" manufacturer. If you are familiar with the company's history, you would know David Wilson first commercial speaker was the WAMM, which cost $30,000, in 1982! He was not able to sustain his business selling only "cost-no-object" systems, so he decided to create less expensive models, which sold better and was able to financially sustain his passion, which was to create the company's flagship models.
This isn't a knock on "entry-level" speakers, by any means, as one should never judge a speaker by its price (except when determining value). But the Sophia 2, while a good speaker, is nowhere close to what Wilson has to offer. To really get the "Wilson performance" that the company is famous for, in my view, that starts with the WATT/Puppy 8, which is an incredible speaker. Beyond that, once you get to the MAXX 3, there is almost no reason to consider anything else. It's only if you have more cash than you know what to do with and have the most discerning ear do you need to consider the Alexandria X-2 Series 2s, which performance is beyond superlatives.
But the Sophia 2s? Not so much so. |
Well obviously to each his own, and certainly as YOU are paying for your speakers, you are entitled to YOUR opinion!
The Sophia 2s do cost more than the 802Ds, and that unfortunately has an effect on many people when comparing the two. No doubt Wilsons are seen as more "exclusive" and "better", and why shouldn't they be? Wilsons "entry-level" is basically B&W's "reference".
On a whole, does Wilson make a better speaker than B&W? Of course! That's been my whole point. Wilson Audio started out as producing really only "reference" speakers and through the years, they have had to make some "entry-level" models for financial reasons. But they certainly are aimed at the "high-end audiophile".
B&W makes iPod docks and "entry-level" speakers that start at $150, not $14,000. There really is no comparison when you are talking about "brands".
But if you are talking about individual speakers, that's when it gets interesting. I have no qualms about people liking the Sophia 2s. It's all a matter of taste. Personally, I find its lack of slam and attack, and limited micro-dynamics compared to other Wilson models EXTREMELY frustrating. I know how good Wilsons can be, and the Sophia 2 falls flat for me, when compared to obviously the X-2s and MAXX 3s, but even the WATT/Puppy 8s.
If the only Wilson you have ever heard is the Sophia 2, then consider yourself blessed. You literally don't know what you're missing. And if you're considering the Sophia 2s and they are the only Wilsons that are within your budget, by God, don't listen to the other Wilsons!
I, unfortunately, have opened Pandora's box, and I won't buy a pair of Wilsons unless I buy a pair of WATT/Puppy 8s, at the minimum. Unfortunately, that is not possible at the moment and I'll see where I'm at in the future after this economy lifts itself from the gutter.
I did audition extensively many other speaker brands including many of the B&W speakers, and think the 802Ds are the best speakers I listened to within my price-range. Yes, better than the Sophia 2s. And impressing my friends isn't much of a concern since none of them know anything about speakers anyway. If I told them I got new Wilsons, they would think I got a new tennis racket! The key is to listen to the Sophia 2s for multiple extended periods (if your dealer lets you) with a wide variety of music. Any Wilson will provide a "honeymoon" period, but the Sophia 2s are the most likely to grow obese with a mustache and sleep with dirtbags at the gas station. |
No worries, your opinion is welcome and respected. As for clarification of when I said $14,000 is "entry-level" for the "high-end", I'm referring strictly to that class of manufacturers where $14,000 really is the entry-level and barely buys you a ticket for admission.
Am I saying any speaker under $14,000 is "bad" or even "not as good"? Absolutely not, and in my previous posts, I've actually stated the opposite. One can find a lot of incredible speakers for much more "value" than you can with most "high-end" speakers.
It's the same as if I said $200,000 was "entry-level" for "high-end sports cars". That class would be Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Bugattis, etc. Would I be incorrect? Sure, there may be some examples where you can find a new Porsche for less than $200K, but not many.
At the same time, that doesn't mean that any cars less than $200K are "bad" or even "not as good". Some would argue a new Corvette or Supra is just as good or provides "more value". That's certainly their prerogative and I wouldn't necessarily be inclined to disagree, at least on the value part. But I wouldn't classify them as "high-end sports cars". Again, just my opinion.
You are right, I love Wilson speakers. I just don't love the Sophia 2. Not a bad speaker, but not nearly as good as what Wilson is capable of. For that price-point, the B&W 802D is better, in my view, for the reasons I've already stated. |
Thanks Blindjim, yes I agree, there are definitely sub-genres even within the narrow confines of "high-end".
To me, there are some companies that are EXCLUSIVELY "high-end", such as Rockport as you mentioned, and Wilson, Magico and Kharma, for example.
Then there are many other brands that have SOME "high-end" speakers, and some (if not most) that are not.
B&W, Focal and KEF would fit in these categories, amongst many others. No reasonable person would deny that the Focal Grande Utopia EM is not a "high-end" speaker, or the B&W Nautilus. Yet few people make that claim about the Focal Chorus 726V or the B&W CM9, even though they are both very fine speakers, and certainly relative to other lines of their respective brands, very good value.
And of course there are many companies that don't deal with the "high-end" end of things, but are outstanding manufacturers. There are too many to mention, but I know if I had only a fraction of my budget, I would still be very happy with what's available in the under-$5,000 range, or even less.
Some ID speaker brands come to mind and they seem to offer the best "bang for the buck" these days. Speaking of which, I have heard some people praise the Salk Veracity HT3 as being superior to the Wilson Sophia 2, which doesn't surprise me.
And with the Salk Veracity HT3 priced at under ONE-THIRD of the cost of the Sophia 2s, you have to wonder if the Sophia 2s would ever sell if they didn't have the Wilson name. Certainly there are many others that agree with you that the Sophia 2s offer poor cost-to-performance ratio.
Like I said before, Wilson is a great speaker manufacturer. But part of what makes them great is their focus on the "ultra high-end". The speakers they make are certainly "cost-no-object", even for the manufacturer, and for consumers in that section of the market, such high prices aren't as much of an issue as it would be for those buyers looking at speakers at the "high-end entry-level". As a result, the Sophia 2 was designed to meet a restrictive price-point, unlike Wilson's "cost-no-object" speakers.
But what the problem is with a company like Wilson making a speaker like the Sophia 2, which costs about 1/13th of the price of their Alexandria X-2 Series 2, is that Wilson, despite being described as "the most successful high-end speaker manufacturer in the world", simply does not have the economies of scale to produce a value-competitive product at this price range.
While undoubtedly successful in the "high-end" world, no one would ever claim Wilson has the economies of scale to rival those of popular speaker manufacturers such as Paradigm, Energy or Definitive Audio. And if any of these speaker companies were to release the Sophia 2, with their economies of scale, the Sophia 2 would cost closer to $4,000, not $14,000. |
