Strapper,you are a lucky guy!Nothing like a large room,and a speaker to do it justice.
Best! |
David,don't feel so bad(I'm sure you don't-:).Up until three years ago,I was about to do a MAJOR revamping of my system,due to not getting what I had hoped my room/system was capable of.I really did not want to go through anymore component changes,as I've owned a ton of previous stuff,but was quite dissatisfied with my ultimate results.I have a large music collection,of many original,and superb "classic",and classical LP's.I was really not able to coax,from these gems,what I thought I might have gotten,when building a dedicated room.
So,one day,I was describing to a dear(and very experienced)hobbyist/friend how dissappointed I was,in myself.Truly!!
Fortunately,he has been in this hobby,at every level,almost.We agreed we would basically break down all set-up parameters,unfortunately I did all the legwork,and still bear the aches.So,by committee,my loyal friends came over to give a big assist.This took multiple listening sessions,over a LONG time.Talk about patience!
If not for the patience of my little audio group(it helped that there was a superb restaurant nearby),I might be an aquarium hobbyist,or photo buff at this point,instead of sticking with audio.A hobby I've been at for 38 years.SO frustrated was I,at that point.
Well,thank GOD for my pals,particularly the "GREAT" Sid Marks.A good ear,and budget is a wonderful thing to have,in this hobby.Yet It's clear to me that having some friends who "really" know what music sounds like,and how to set up a system,independently of suppositions is of far greater importance!Lucky me!!
I'm serious when I state that everything I've come to learn,about the "art of music reproduction,in the home",has come by committee.
It's great to have a group of fellow "music first",hobbyists,who know what they are doing.Now instead of recycling the water in a fish tank,I can listen to "La Mer",instead,and you don't have to worry about your speakers leaking on the floors!!
BTW-With all due respect,the Osiris' I was privy to were bi-amped.Though,for you,this should be of little consequence,as you moved to a STUNNING speaker in the Dyna Audios anyway!!
Best!! |
Vincent,et al--I'm happy I didn't bore any of you with the long post,as this is Strappers time to really shine!!He started the thread,and he spent the bucks,for the ISIS.
BTW,Strapper,I just got an E-mail offering me Brand New Isis,boxed and from an authorized dealer,for 42 thousand U.S. dollars.I never inquired,yet I guess the guy follows Audiogon posts.He,also had nice discounts on CAT stuff,as well as a bunch of others.HMM,maybe I DO have something to look forward to,down the road!
Best! |
Strapper,you should not feel,even the least bit defensive,regarding any aspect of your wonderful ISIS acquisitions.Driver costs,or any other factor.The research,and decision to bring a product,like that to market,alone,adds to the final cost of a product.
Forget even Wilson.Take a look at the pricing on the Kharma stuff(which I love,btw)!A little,well made design,like the Midi-Exquisite,at 75k!!!!????Now,does your ISIS really look that expensive?
Best! |
Strapper,based upon your comments,I'm suspicious of that low a price.If I were in the market,at present,I'd move very cautiously!Thanks!!
Vincent--Thanks,and I hope you have continued good listening!!
Siddh--VERY,VERY interesting post,for me!The Ascent speakers I refer to are the last modded version,which I hope yours were.I'm not sure if you were aware,at the time of your used purchase,but they had a greatly enhanced tweeter mod incorporated at some point which was a huge leap in performance.Also,not as big an improvement as the tweeter mod,but audible,was the woofer mod,which firmed up the bass response.
At the time you owned the speakers,there was a common trend to drive them with Jadis(the exact models you had).I had a friend who had that exact configuration,of JA-200's,and knew of another hobbyist using the Defy 7.Both admitted to never being totally satisfied with the bass/mid bass.The problem was definitely the Jadis amplification,which was not strong in these areas.They both admitted to this.
That being said,I have driven my pair with Audio Research Classic 150's/Krell MD-300 mono blocks/Rowland 8t,with battery power supply/and my latest-Specially modded Rowland 8t,with a Rowland switch mode power supply,instead of the battery,in the second chassis.This last version,which was never offered as a standard product,was done for me by Jeff Rowland,himself,as he knew I wanted to keep the low noise of the battery,but needed more power.The new P/S doubled my power,yet unbelieveably proved to be quieter,more dynamic,and MUCH better at the frequency extremes than the battery.Go figure!I never would have thought it would be this quiet,as the battery was,already dead quiet!
The difference was absolutely amazing to me,and allowed the cabinet mass,and crossover design to really show off a dynamic envelope I'd not had in my big Infinity designs,of the past.
I must state that I DID build my dedicated room around the preferred spec that Avalon told me would be "nearly ideal"!22.5x13x8 Concrete flooring.Not really large,but the original owner's manual was/is dead right about virtually every aspect of performance.Provided one actually follows it's directions.
Except the deep bass!!! Midbass is absolutely stunning,impactful,real,dynamic and pitch perfect.Something NO port can duplicate,though many are fine,but no cigar,as you found out with the Eidolon.(remember Avalon wants to sell speakers,and would sell alot more by eliminating the big crossovers,in the Ascent(even though they are far superior),and extending low response a bit more,through porting,but at a price,in the midbass!!Can't say I blamed them.
SO here is how I saw my situation,at that point.I was at an audio show,listening to the wonderful Sonus Faber Guarnieri Homage monitors,when I looked down at this beautifully crafted smallish(compared to the Wilson design I had pondered)black cabinet.The distributer was Sumiko who told me these were the REL STENTOR SERIES TWO's.After getting a demo,and realizing they run off the amp(a good thing),I got hot to trot,about the idea of really getting the lowest octave.BUT,BUT,BUT--ALL MY FRIENDS thought I was nuts(which I already know I am).They didn't feel it would mate seamlessly,as the Ascents are bullet fast,and REALLY DO have a midbass to die for,in every parameter.If you did not get this,you missed something.Big time!
Well I waited about a year and a half,until a dealer offered me a money back guarantee,as to my being satisfied.The way I saw it,the bass driver,in the REL,was only 10 inches,and down firing.I read as much as I could,and figured it would be quick enough to keep up with the Ascent.So I went for it.
Well,being a typical audiophile,I was thrilled with the combo,but it was really the fact that I was getting off on having really deep bass.It was NOT really a great blend.NOT end of story!Everyone I know,having bought a sub,first goes through this.I guess it's the joy of deep powerful bass.Yet my original intent was to match the laser speed of my midbass.It was not happening,at first.Until my pal,and ruthless in his criticism,if MUSIC is not accurate,Sid showed up.
Well he literally knocked me off my pedestal,of joy,and he was right!So I decided to really integrate the sub,correctly.DON'T ANYONE ASK how long it took me!He did the same to a fairly well known reviewer,who had bought a sub to integrate with his beloved JM Labs Micros(superb little speakers,btw).Same results.
Finally,after giving into music,and not feel good bass,I have gotten a PERFECT blend of midbass/bass/mids/highs,to answer your original question.The sub rolls off gradually,so a bottom of 25 hz is best in my room.NO seams,at all.ONE BIG AVALON SOUND,with the virtue of being able to move the sub around,to find the best placement for proper reinforcement.HARD,TIMELY,WORTH IT!!!
So,I di reiterate that those giving up on these,gave up too soon!
BEST!! |
jtgoFish,you're not telling me anything that is not obvious.Try following some of my earlier posts,if you want my take on the hobby.I appreciate your sentiments,but why should I not be genuinely happy for a fellow audiophile who has already committed money to a product?I'm truly happy that someone like Strapper is enthused about his wonderful speaker!What would I gain from diminishing his desire to buy said product,other than to look like an envious person.Which I am,btw!!
Best! |
Funny thing,Strapper.I have always felt there was not enough offered from Avalon,to make me want to upgrade from my Avalon Ascents/Rel Stentor.Loved the Eidolons,but STILL not enough.
Well,now I have to take these ISIS very seriously,as they seem to really push the envelope.Glad you are happy.
BTW--They are SO gorgeous,I'd have little trouble convincing my wife to live with them.Only problem,I'm probably moving in two years(Won't have my dedicated room,then),but will have to carefully assess the size of anything new.
Also,glad to see you're running tubed amps.I have no problems w/SS(and have Rowland),but I can't see getting the best from the ISIS without a really powerful tube setup.I'm thinking I'd consider the VTL 400(300 wpc,in one chassis).What do you think?
Best of luck! |
Getting back to thw ISIS,for a moment,as I just spoke to the folks at Avalon,it seems that the ISIS is a ported design.Though I'm sure it IS superb,the porting(regardless of mfgr claims)is NOT as accurate in the midbass and bass as a sealed enclosure.I have never heard a ported box that did not have a signature sound.I have heard ALL contenders,like the big JM Labs,biggest NOLA Exotica(deep bass,discontinuous),Wilsons etc.If you have heard a really great sealed enclosure you know what I mean(provided it does the rest of the musical spectrum well).
I have a friend who has held onto his old Infinity RS-1b's,and "mega modded" them.These are sealed box speakers,and when you hear the pitch definition in the lower octaves,that they possess,you are simply bowled over.I really believe,due to the shift in the speaker design industry,to ports which satisfy the average consumer,that it will be an educational experience for any of us to hear a great sealed box design.Sorry for the run-on sentence!
BTW-If I ever own the ISIS,Id happily rationalize these comments!!
Best! |
Why try to diminish someone else's pleasure,and pride of ownership,by knocking their new possession?Regardless of cost!I assume anyone doing so will not "spring" for an expensive bottle of wine,or any other object that does not seem to easily justify a lofty price tag.BTW--ever see the prices on the "latest" yearly model of golf driver?Or ski products?Not to mention wrist watches,or my daughter's addiction,pricey handbags!!Whew,a friggin pocketbook,for six hundred bucks.
Suddenly it becomes obvious that there are the cache products,in almost any area of human interest."MAN",I used to find "Indian Head Pennies" in pocket change!Ever take a look at the prices of "not too old" coins?How about "Baseball cards"!!Give me a break!My first car was 1500 bucks!!!!Yet my OLD, long forgotten, Lionel Trains,are worth thousands!!!!Even the stupid prizes found in the old cereal boxes command megabucks from maniacal collectors.Not to mention the "Original Star Wars" dreck,that my 25 year old son still has.It can easily pay for a year or two of his current med school!!
To me,since I do love audio products,and those items that interest me,soley,if I can afford my passion,it "IS" worth it!!The ISIS SURELY falls into that category!!Just ask Strapper!
Best to all,and btw---"Jindalee"(australian)Shiraz,and Merlot are bargains,at about 7 bucks a bottle!Though the Chardonnay is no big deal.Hey,if you find a good substitute I'm interested.Don't know of a cheap way to get the ISIS though! |
