Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?

yannig,

One could make this argument about other 'broadcast' quality tables as well.. Gates, Weathers, Russo, Technics, Sony, Harris, Presto, Lord, Schlumberger, Commonwealth, etc., etc., etc...

They all had the same cost no object line of thought when building turntables that literally ran 24 hours a day.  Given that, the EMT 927 seems to somehow come out on top, as 'the one to have' among audiophiles.  I know I would chuck my beloved modified Dual 1229, and Garrard 301 in a heartbeat for one.  Problem is, they are expensive and its hard to find one that doesn't have 'high miles' so to speak.

Norman

Lewm,
Thuchan certainly has an eclectic collection of turntables. I never really understood why he did the Victor, but a good direct drive does have its place.  I personally loved the Sony broadcast table he had for a bit as well. 
With regard to the EMT 927, you really have to experience it.  It is astonishinly good.  To me it is hands down head and shoulders above anything else.  I really would love to have one.  Tim Gurney, Eckarts former blog partner did a nice piece on his.  Tim also has a grease bearing 301.

Then again, I remember a massive Rockport and the wonderful Walker Black Diamond leaving a huge inpression on me at CES several years back.   There are so many fine tables out there that most of us will never get a taste of. I have a feeling that any properly restored broadcast table would leave most all of us speechless. 

So many tables, so little time.  =)
Norman
 

Thuchan,
Was that a Cobra arm that I seen you using with the Victor?  I was impressed by your efforts to rebuild/restore and modify the Victor, but I am wondering if it could possibly be as good as your direct drive Denon broadcast table?
I look forward to hearing more.

Norman

Eckarts in Germany, halcro is in Australia, and I am in the U.S. shaking my head after reading the comparison. (thank you.. very well done)

I am surprised that the little Victor gets such high praise.  I believe that the Victor 101 was the JVC QL-10 here in the states.  I remember them.  I also remember that it wasn't even their best effort. 

Do an internet search for JVC QL-A70.  I think this was their top of the line turntable for many years.  Direct drive, heavy plinth and a substantial platter.  Similar to the Series 20 (Pioneer PL-590) in size and weight.  Makes me wonder how that would compare to the 101?

Happy to hear that the EMT is your favorite. In the two or three times that I have had an opportunity to listen to the 927 it just stands out as the finest table ever.  When I think about how good it is, I can't even listen to my humble Dual and Garrard...

I have heard similar comments about the Continuum/Cobra turntable and I don't understand why? I especially like the bearing design in this turntable, and I believe that is where much of it's 'magic' comes from.
The Cobra arm will always be the subject of much debate, due its design.  Truthfully, it looks very difficult to set up.

Norman 

halcro,

Obviously I had no idea and was way off the mark.  It also makes more sense now.  I am really intrigued by this table.  This morning I was scanning the Internet to see how available they are.  

I see that yours is in a open style plinth, while Eckarts is in seemingly low mass plinth as well.  Is that more desirable than a high mass plinth for this table?

Thankyou for adjusting my thinking here.

N.

Henry,

Thanks for the photos.  I especially like the custom arm pods.  Looks tremendous. 

I would imagine that Thuchans sounds excellent as well.  I have heard many good arguments about using arm pods as this de-couples the turntable plinth from the arm. I have often thought of trying it myself but my Dual and Garrard are both set in traditional hardwood plinths with single arm mounts.  

If I come across an affordable Victor I may contact you for the drawings of your plinth. 

Thanks again Henry.

Norman

Sonicbeauty,
If you've read even some of these post you will find that it's not just one set of ears, or one room, or one cartridge. 
Many here agree with Thuchans thoughts on the  EMT. Those that haven't heard one for themselves can take comfort in knowing that Thuchans listening room is built from the ground up as a 'no compromise' listening room using only the finest in electronics and source material. He also has a stellar collection of high end turntables and tonearms a that are considerably more expensive than the cost of his EMT and provide him with a platform to give an 'unbiased' assements of the turntables strengths. 

Most of us don't have this type of room or equipment to properly make such a comparison.

In fact most professional audio reviews don't either.  

Norman

nandric,

That's taken completely out of context.  The question was "Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?"  So, it's a question, not a statement.

Logically then, we can easily conclude that it is a question he is personally pondering given his own experiences. 

So, given that Thuchan posed a question and did not make a statement your "all quantor" and "set theoretic paradoxes" leaves through the window.

Furthermore, no ever said anything in this post from my recollection about the EMT besting any and all future turntables.

Sonicbeauty,

Keep in mind this is a forum, where we all have opinions, likes and dislikes.  There are no 'absolutes' when it comes to ones tastes or preferences and there are no 'rights and wrongs' either.  

I used to own an large expensive McIntosh system.  It was wonderful, but then I found that vintage Sansui was more engaging, and more 'musical' to 'me'.  I have friends that think I am out of my mind, but it doesn't matter what they think. What matters is what I think, and what I enjoy. 

This is the same with anything we talk about here.  I can share my experiences and preferences with others, and they do likewise.  Thucan has found the EMT table to be superior to anything else he has listened to or owned.  I happened to agree with him as do many others.  And maybe he didn't use the best 'english grammar' to express that, but cut him some slack… He's native language is German, though he speaks fluent French, and English among others.

halcro is spot on however when it comes to Thucans credentials.  I am wondering if you  even realize what type of system he has? My statement 'using on the finest in electronics and source materials' couldn't be more accurate.

Finally, judging from your comments I am guessing that you have never listened to an EMT 927 turntable.  

Norman

orpheus10,

I am 54 years old.  I was a professional musician for years and have been in this music/hi-fi hobby since the mid 70's.  Honestly, I am embarrassed when I think of all the money and systems that I used to own.

I started with Sansui and what is funny to me is that here I have come full circle… using and enjoying Sansui and music like never before.

I don't know what it is either,  It is just musical and engaging. No, it doesn't have the thunder of Krell or Mac and their is absolutely no 'snob' appeal whatsoever.  But since coming back to Sansui, I find that I listen longer, and nearly everyday.  For the first time in over 40 years, I find that I am not listening to my stereo, but just the music.  I am no longer analyzing and tweaking.  I don't even think about it.  To me, this is the best sound I have ever heard.

Thanks for your kind comment.  

Norman

pcosta,

I purchased a 927 and the restoration was expensive.  I did not have the 139st, which I really wanted.  I have heard the 139st and it is just superb!  I don’t hear any shortcoming in it at all.
I was using a 3012 and my 1966 Denon 103.  Even with these compromises the results were outstanding.  I have a highly modified Dual 1229 with a Grace 747, and a Garrard 301 with a SME 3009, and the EMT was so superior it was laughable.  Keep in mind, I love the sound of my Dual and Garrard, but the EMT seemed to provide so much more information and solidity to the music.  The 3012 is a good arm, but as Eckart has told me it’s really not the best choice for the EMT.  
I regretfully sold the big EMT (my living room is my listening space and the EMT in its broadcast frame doesn’t blend well with furniture - my wife hated it).
Eckart (thuchan) can recommend a proper arm/cartridge combo for you.  He was extremely helpful to me as his knowledge of the table setup was priceless.  
If you have the space, this is the last turntable you will ever want.  It’s such a joy to operate, and is a listening experience I wish everyone could have.  I miss my 927 every single day.

Norman

Paul,

I agree with lewm, there is no reason to discard the arm.  Rewire if necessary but if the bearings are good I would use it.  I used the 3012 because I had it.  It worked fine, just not the best choice.  The 997 would be better, because it is better.

My modest vintage hifi is in a nice cabinet in my living room.  The broadcast 927 was just too big and industrial looking.  I had considered trying a smaller EMT, but I don’t think anything would be like the 927.  

The biggest thing  with my 927 was taking the motor apart and cleaning and lubing.  The motor was a little noisy when I first got the turntable. After it was restored it was very quite.  
I didn’t even need to repaint mine.  The enamel paint was so thick it would take a hammer swing to mar it.  It was soiled, as was the entire turntable.  The platter bearing is huge, and was perfect.  My bearing was oil based, but I have heard that some are also grease fitted.  (Like Garrard).  

I also had the glass platter.  Some are fitted with persplex.  
The only other turntable that has impressed me so much was the Rockport Sirius III, which a client of mine owns.  I wish I could  have heard them side by side.

I also had the broadcast frame.  My frame was spring loaded, so you could jump and the turntable wouldn’t move.  The frame is designed to sit into a console  which if you have the room I would recommend.

The TSD cartridge makes sense.  EMT and Ortofon has many high mass choices.  I also used my Decca Red which worked well.  
If you have space, this is a no compromise turntable.  

I wasn't planning on selling mine.  A fellow agon member asked to hear it.  Afterward, what he offered me on the spot was about three and a half times what I had into it.  So, reluctantly I sold it.

As I said, I miss it everyday.  Eckart has some incredible turntables, but if his system were mine, I would sell them all and keep the EMT.

Norman

Mine came out of a radio station and was well used.  It didn’t have the 139st either. 

I’m surprised that you can find them for so low a price, but maybe?  If you’re in the market, I would certainly take a look because you never know.  

The tech I used was familiar with EMT tables and rebuilding them.  But honestly they are so straight foreword any competent tech can probably do a fine job.

I’m gonna check out the link you posted from Stefano, I know he used to own an EMT 930 for awhile.  That’s an interesting thought on the tone arm differences.  

N.

lewm,

$5000.00 for a respectable 927 is an amazing deal.  Really, clean, lube and adjust and their ready for another 50 years.   I’m not saying that $30-40,000 is crazy, but isn’t it?  If that were pocket change to me I wouldn’t spend it on a turntable, or any other piece  of hi-fi equipment.  

The system I’m listening to today is quite a bit less expensive then the one I used 10-15 years ago, and yet today  I’m enjoying music more than ever.  Off the merry-go-round.  

Norman

Most my age have heard the SP-10...many times.  No one will ever argue that it isn’t a fine table, but it will never deliver the Pace-Pitch-Power of a 927.  Even the lesser Duals, Garrard, and Lencos with idler drive display this quality.  But when you’re talking about broadcast built tables, EMT , Gates and  Russco Studio can’t be matched.  
Honestly, everything about the table, from the actuation of the speed selectors, to the feel of the spinning platter let you know that what you are using is something very special.  It’s such and impressive machine.   Then there is the music, you never knew you vinyl could convey such emotion.  Even with modest tone arms and cartridges the results are stellar.

N.

Mike Lavigne, 
I have been scouring the internet looking up your turntable.. very impressive.  Maybe I missed it in a post, but I am curious which arm and cartridge you are using?

It’s so refreshing to see such a well designed table.  I look forward to hearing one. 

Yes, for what I read I would say this beast is definitely in the EMT R80/927 league.

 Very nice!
Norman