Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?


Having owned many good turntables in my audiophile life I am still wondering why not one of the modern designs of the last 20 years is able to beat the sound qualities of an EMT 927.
New designs may offer some advantages like multiple armboards, more than one motor or additional vibration measurements etc. but regarding the sound quality the EMT is unbeatable!
What is the real reason behind this as the machine is nearly 60 years old, including the pre-versions like the R-80?
thuchan

Showing 6 responses by mijostyn

@audioguy85 , I suppose the looks are subjective. If anything else is subjective it is a bad turntable.

@brunorivademar, When you have records with uneven surfaces and eccentric spindle hole those speed specs mean saw dust. Records are never going to be that accurate. Signal to noise ration is MUCH more important. Noise you can hear and when it comes to rumble wastes amplifier power and increases distortion. 

@rauliruegas , that is when Denon made great stuff although the arm on the  DP-100M was a stretch to far. The armless version was the one to get. We use to stick Infinity Black Widows on them. Shure V-15 heaven. 

@dover, that is very true but in regards to the music they do not. The timing of the music is the purview of the artist. They do not play to account for speed instability of the playback device. Any deviation from a constant 33.33 is in error (assuming the lathe was not off). You are correct in that instability of the turntable can hurt the timing of the music if it is bad enough and older idler turntables are far less stable than good modern ones. Even if they are good when new wear on multiple parts will take it's toll. This may not be true of older DD table as they have fewer mechanical parts to wear. I have no idea what aging of electronic parts will do but all bearings will wear out eventually. 

@rauliruegas The most ground breaking turntable of all time was the AR XA. It broke the norm and introduced brand new technology that substantially improved playback. All turntables before it were compromised by their idler drive mechanisms which were needed to change speed with the lack of electronic motor control. By 1960 that technology had exhausted itself until they were dumped on the market for pennies on the dollar and audiophiles on a budget started tinkering around with them. My very first table was a used TD 124 and for a 13 year old audiophile it was brilliant. But, even with a good cleaning, lubing and change of idler wheels it still rumbled like a freight train. Subwoofers were still a years away so it did not matter as much. Since the XA we have direct drive tables, electronic management of belt drive tables, vacuum clamping and various new thrust mechanism, magnetic and air. If you can think of anything else please add on. 

@audioguy85 , subjective? that is a poor excuse. There is nothing or should be nothing subjective about a turntable. It's performance characteristics are easily measured. If it changes the sound it is because it has an unwelcomed resonance. This is not true of cartridges and tonearms. They can alter the sound in ways we can not easily measure. And as always most of what people think they hear has been psychologically modified. 

@dover , there are many reasons your Garrard sounds better than your other tables besides the drive. I respectfully disagree with that terminology. A turntable does not have timing or pace for that matter. The music has that. A turntable just spins at 33.33 rpm as quietly and accurately as possible. A great turntable has no sound of it's own. Cartridge may have a sound of their own and IMHO those are the least desirable cartridges. The tonearm can certainly influence the sound a cartridge manufactures but again the best arms have no sound of their own and hold the cartridge rigidly with only 2 degrees of freedom. Coloration added to the sound my be pleasing to some people but it is distortion non the less.

@brunorivademar , what we are concerned with is, in reality pitch stability. Speed stability in the best modern turntables is inconsequential in comparison to surface irregularities, warps and spindle hole eccentricity in records. There is no such thing as "microsecond timing" when it comes to vinyl playback. The medium is far more inaccurate than even mediocre playback devices. If you want "microsecond timing" throw your turntable away and stick with digital. 

As for the superiority of antique turntables? That is total BS perpetrated by people who sell these things for ridiculous money. Then the people who buy them regurgitate the same BS. Hobbyists use to buy these old table because they were at one time cheap and they were better than similarly priced new tables. Then the thing got a life of it's own in current mythology and the price got jacked along with the BS. I would not have a 927 if it were the last turntable on earth. If that was all I could get I'd sell my record collection to people like you and stick with hi res files. 

The model T is of serious historic significance but I would never want to drive one. If an idler turntable does not rumble much when it is new just give it a few hours and it will rumble like an express train. They will drive anyone with accurate bass down to 18 Hz CRAZY. 

@lewm , you do not have corrected subwoofers and your Lenco does rumble more than any other drive type. If you think it sounds good wonderful, spin away. 

@brunorivademar , idler drives ALWAY rumble more than any other drive type. and if you had corrected subwoofers you would know that. That is one of the big reasons they virtually disappeared besides being more complicated and expensive to make. The only reason for idler drive was to be able to change speeds with a constant speed AC motor. There were no electronic drives/variable speed motors at the time. They persisted in the radio industry because you cannot slip cue a belt drive and there is no deep bass in radio. When direct drive came around the idler drives disappeared from the market until renovating old used tables became a thing and the mythology matured. It is worse than wearing someone else's used underwear.