Why "Cryo" anything?

.
Hi Eric / Mr_hosehead,
.
A friend and I did the double blind studies and were done with great care.
.
I am sorry if I was a bit over the top with my first post. I get a bit tired of people making statements about how something does or does not work or sounds or does not sound better in audio based on their electronic or physical property science /theories rather than practical experience.
.
I have learned that principles can send you in a general right direction, but experience is all that counts in audio in the end. Who cares what the science says if your practical experience works for you in your system with your music when this moment's science says it does not? Science does not know what it does not know. To think that we have a complete understanding of electronics and physical properties as it pertains to Audio, is naïve and foolish.
.
I am always interested in hearing scientific theories and principles as they relate to audio (and most things for that matter), but I think it is wrong to be close-minded and assume that current science accounts for all the information needed to understand a particular situation.
.
The 2 different double blind studies were done on CDR's and Symposium Roller Blocks. In both cases, my friend came up with the exact same results two different weekends in a row. In the case of the CD's he was able to rank 6 different CD's in the same exact order based on sonic differences (improvements) on two different Saturdays. He also was able to always tell me which pair of Symposium Roller Blocks had been cryoed and which not over several repetitions. I also have had several other audiophile friends (some with incredible ears and musical sense) consistently confirm the same results. Not one person out of many has not been able to hear the positive differences yielded by cryoing the Roller Blocks and the CDR’s.
.
I have also found that cryoing power cords, speaker cables and interconnects also help dramatically, but I have not been a position to do A/B comparisons on these items do to a lack of spare non-treated items. In these cases, I have been left to my memory (and my friend’s memory) of the before / after listening experiences and that is a good bit left to memory, different listening conditions (power quality, my mood, my ears etc.) for me to make absolute statements.
.
I will tell anyone considering doing cryo treatments that you have to be careful. Some materials can be damaged by cryo treatment (specifically, silicon and super glue that I am aware of). I have had great success with sending items to Charles Beresford of Cryogenics International. He is a great guy that has cryoed tons of audio stuff and can share his and his customers experience with you. You can contact him by email at info@cryogenicsinternational.com or phone 480 991 0299 (no, I do not have any financial interest of any sort. I am just a very, very happy and grateful customer).
. A word of caution: Cryoed cables (especially speaker) cables take an inordinate amount of time to break in. I have a great pair of NBS speaker cables that I thought I had ruined by cryoing them. It took using a cable cooker and over a hundred hours plus of playing at full listening volume (200 initial hours of running my CDP with the system at low volume did almost nothing to break them back in) to get them back to sounding great. When they had full broken in, my system sounded incredible and had never sounded nearly as good (verified by a good friend who has heard my system weekly over the last 3 years).
.
In the end, all I can tell you with complete confidence is that Cryoing does work and works well on most items. Detail has been enhanced, glare and brightness reduced, bass has become tighter and more tuneful and the overall musicality and emotional value enhanced.
.
I always chuckle when I read the posts of the Cryo naysayers and ramblings of how it can’t possibly work based on science. Well, it just works. I can’t tell you why or how, but I can assure you it can and does improve sonics.
.
As non audio side note, the Gillette Sensor razor blades that used to last me about a week now are good for over 3 months.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
Eldartford,
.
I am ok with Elephants can't fly, but Cryo treatment works (and not because I am stubborn, but because it does).
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
Drubin,
.
I can not tell you why Cryoed CD's sound so much better but they just do.
.
Maybe someone else can chime in fill us in on the why.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
Fishboat,
.
You have just ranted based on your ignorance. Cryo treatments absolutely do great things sonically for many (not all) audio pieces (results based on double blind studies).
.
Cryo treatment can destroy some materials like silicon and super glue.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
Ejliu,
.
So in essence you are saying (if I understand your post correctly) that I am not capable of doing a double blind study with credible results. You also feel that the group of serious audiophiles thatlistened to the cryo treated vs non cryo treated CD's and Symposium Rollerblocks are not valid enough to allow yourself to experiment with cryo treatments to see if it helps your system ?

It totally amazes me that what we hear is not adequate enough for someone to appreciate the value of a piece of equipment, room treatment, or tweak and that a scientific explanation is needed for value to exist. What makes one think that science has the answers for all that works (or does not work), that we can measure everything that our ears can hear, or that someone has already taken the time to figure out the why's of everything?
.
Your comparison of the "earth is the center of the universe" is not a relevant comparison. I have shared the experiences of what people have consistently heard (bar none that have listened) and appreciated when comparing cryoed and non-cryoed items. I did not make a statement of why or what was going on. I just related a consistent experience. Most of us are in audio to enjoy music. It is also quite interesting and helpful to come to understand why something might work. If some piece of equipment or tweak aids in our appreciation and enjoyment of music, why in the world would any of us dismiss including something in our system soley because someone is unable to explain how it works to our satisfaction. In the end, why dismiss something just because we don’t not have an adequate understanding of why it works. When you buy a new TV do you look at the picture quality and make a decision or do you require a full explanation of the circuitry of both sets before making a decision?
.
Cryo treatments work well on many pieces of audio equipment. It is an efficient and cost effective way of improving your listening experience. I often read posts from Audiogon members who firmly believe Cryo treatments work extremely well in improving some audio pieces. I also read plenty of posts telling us why it won’t work because of some scientific principle. Those posters tell us the science of why it won’t work but have not experienced cryo vs non-cryo pieces. I also have not read where someone has tried cryo treating several different types of items and it has not improved the sonics for them any of them.
.
Ejilu,
.
Email me off line, I will send you my mailing address, you mail a CDR of your choosing, send it to me, and I will burn a copy of your CD on a Cryoed CDR and send it back to you at no cost. Then, you can compare your CD vs the cryoed copy that I make for you. Please come back on this post and share the differences you hear.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
John,
.
Great post and very informative thank you. Yes, I did mean to write silcone.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
Ejilu,
.
There is a reasonable chance that I studied and understood valid sample sizes before you did. It would be nice for us to have done over 100 repetitions of the comparisons that we did, but we only did about 22 or so. I think a 100 % agreement from sophisticated and objective audiophiles makes a pretty strong case for the idea that cryo treatments can work on certain audio components.
.
It is interesting that you have had time to send another condescending post to/about me but not have the time to send an email to me so we could organize me sending a cryoed copy of one of your CD's to you so you could make your own comparisons and conclusions.
.
What listening comparisons have you done so far of comparing cryoed and non-cryoed audio parts in the same resolving system on the same day with the same music that have led you to believe that cryo treatments don’t work ?
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
Eric,
.
This is an audio site. Why on earth if you are truly interested in knowing whether cryoing works would you turn down a free Cryoed CD if not just to satiate your curiosity ?
.
Understanding the science is fine and worthy, but what is the point in being interested in the science and not the subjective experience of listening on your own ?
.
Your responses and reactions just reinforces the thought that you started this thread just to start a debate to argue and you don't really care about whether cryoing works in someone's system.
.
Please don't ask questions in the future on this forum if you have no serious interest in searching for answer of your questions. You have just succeeded in wasting the time of a few well-intended people who were trying to be helpful.
.

.
I just had a sophisticated audiophile friend visiting from Colorado who I had listen to 2 CDR’s (both copies of the same music mix), one cryoed and the other not.
.
I did not tell him which CD was treated, which not and nor that either of the CD’s were cryoed. He easily picked the cryoed CD as his clear favorite of the 2 CD's. This makes close to 25 people who have easily been able to hear the improvement derived from Cryo treating CD’s.
.
This makes it still 100 % of the time that audiophiles can hear the difference between a cryoed and non-cryoed CD and all clearly preferred the Cryoed CD.
.
Who gives a flying rat's ass whether there is a scientific logic to why this works. If it works it works. If people can always hear it, then they can hear it. It just works and it is obvious to anyone who has sat down and made the listening comparison.
.
If you have not tried listening to cryoed vs non-cryoed materials, then you really have no place being a naysayer unless you just choose to be illogical.
.

.
Viridian,
.
Are you sohpiscticated or an audiophile ?

.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
Marty,
.
Good answer.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

.
Lugnut,
.
Nice summation and great post. You are fogiven, come home.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.