So here is some anecdotal on "deniers" - those who claim they hear no difference:
A bunch of them were gathered in a blind test, where some speaker cables were to be tested - generic zip cord vs. a high end speaker cable - or so they were told.
Then, the tester used the same exact cable, but, on test "b" (cable "b" to the subjects), the polarity was swapped (speakers connected out of phase).
100% of the subjects reported they heard no difference. Blind. The matter of fact, the out-of-phase "cable" sounded noticeably worse than the correct connection cable.
Go figure! |
Got a link to that @mzkmxdkfhfnms ?
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You guys are wasting your time. You cannot win any argument with any cable deniers folks. That's the reality. They will never submit to actually trying stuff, instead, asking us to provide proof and measurements. They often throw in some mumbo-jumbo electric engineering stuff into the discussion, often copied from another similar forum, just say: "you see - it cannot possibly make a difference".
More often than not, their actual gear is a pittance, stuff from the 80s, with captive power cords, and low-fi gear. Even if they tried good cables, they won't hear any difference anyway, as their stuff is junk. A $1,000 power cords will not make a DIY Amp costing $499 in 1988 sound like a modern, say $10,000 Amp. As simple as that.
I always find them to show their jealousy, lack of means to accomplish anything, and a serious case of "If I cannot afford it, it is not worth it" mentality.
Just ignore them. Find like-minded people, with good gear, and open-mind to experiment and try new stuff. |
mzkmxcv357 posts01-15-2019 1:23pm
I can also tell you that pretty much no person can tell the difference between 320Kbps MP3 and CD or higher, as studies have been done in treated rooms with expensive gear, and the confidence ratings were all 40%-60%. However, you may think you can.
----- Oh boy! Issue with seems to be not just with the power cords. It runs deeper than that. Any links to the above statement? Just curious --- do you listen to music on a clock radio speaker with Alexa? |
@mzkmxcv: If you cannot differentiate MP3 and CD with $12,000 speakers, $9,000 Amp and over $6,000 DAC, then I seriously question your hearing. I am 100% serious on this. No joke.
Over the course of a year that you have joined Audiogon (btw with zero feedback meaning no purchases or sales), based on your remarks on amps, DACs, etc., it seems like you’re convinced that only measurements define the sound quality of a component and you won’t budge. That’s fine but don’t be so adamant in trying to convince others. Nothing wrong with the measurements (and Amirm and Archimego), but if said measurements were the only criteria to assess sound quality, we would all have Benchmark products in our racks. Everyone else would be out of business.
It seems like your only purpose in forums (and possibly in life), is to pollute every single thread questioning every single product, be it DAC (other the Topping of course), Amp, streamer, cable, etc. Asking people for double blind test in 10 (ten) seconds intervals! I wonder why.
And are you sure what you listed is your equipment? I quickly googled your username, and it appears in several forums in Massdrop discussing $15 IEMs, as well as KEF and ELAC speakers. And of course, Topping DACs!
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Funny that 2009 study is the first that comes up when I googled it, with a broken link.
However, you were persistent enough to find it!
A big sample of a whole 13 people! With a mean age of 27!!?
Their second conclusion was fine, until the last part:
*****Trained listeners cannot discriminate between CD quality and mp3 compression (256-320kb/s),while expert listeners could***
Because they had so few individuals (13) they can't compare results from experts and non-experts. It might take at least 10 times as many individuals before they could make statistically valid observations about that. And they never defined what makes for a trained listener and what makes for an expert trained listener.
Simple statistics.
Besides, with the admittedly nice equipment you listed, are you saying that you cannot differentiate between mp3 and CD?
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Sometimes I hear a difference when replacing a power cord with another, sometimes I don’t. I sell the cable that don’t bring anything better to my system. I keep the one that does. Then repeat.
There are times where the difference is right off the bat, to the point of being wowed. There are times where the difference is subtle, if any. It takes many trials, and over the years as the system evolves. It’s fun.
If you never ever found any difference with your new multiple cables you have bought, there is a possibility you are buying the wrong cables. It's a possibility. I admit, it is difficult to determine what cable WILL make a difference good for you and what consists an upgrade from your current cable. It can only be found by trial and error.
One thing that I recommend you do, after getting a cable that does make a difference to you, regardless of the scale, is listen to your system with your new (better) cable for a week. Maybe just a good weekend. Then switch to the old cable. Are you missing anything? Then you will know. |
It is astonishing such a large number of people looking for “real” and “measurable “ differences in cables and power cords. How about the good old fashioned listening? Like, with your ears? What’s wrong with that?
Why so little trust to your ears guys? Why should one “prove” it to you with some graphs and measurements?
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There are people who would argue that power cords have a bigger impact than signal cables. I am unable to explain why, but they do |
Thanks for sharing your experience @twinterfinder
‘Keeping an open mind goes a long way. Something that “prove it to me” folks should try and find out for themselves
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@mkgus : you are wasting your time with that guy. They will never listen, no matter what.
First, If you tell them you can hear a difference, they say you are hallucinating. Prove it to me. With measurements and graphs.
Then, when you show them graphs like @doitwithlife did, they say: meh... it is inaudible. Does not matter.
It’s truly a waste of time. I know these guys. They are everywhere in the Internets. Or maybe it’s just one giant AI unit, that posts everywhere under fake identities. I don’t know. They try nothing, and they say they don’t have to try, because they KNOW it does not work.
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LOL! Seriously @mkgus... they all keep saying the same thing all over the place (the Internets) all over gain, the same phrase / rationale. AI for sure! 😂😂 |
Thanks for sharing @doitwithlife ! |
If I manufactured a car and knew for a fact that a better tire would approve the performance of my car, why would I not invest in the cheapest part of my car to improve the performance for the customer
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Manufacturers are in a tough position caught between cost, anal audiophiles and not turning off the denialists any more than they already are. 100% agree! |
Much appreciated @spatialking Well written.
I am afraid what you wrote will go to deaf ears. Cable deniers will deny no matter what the rationale is. And they will never try for themselves. |
